Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

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Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby blueheron13 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:01 am

A moderator in the Holly Sub Facebook group posted a notice of Lake State Railway Company's intent to lease and operate the CSX line between Mount Morris (MP 25.98) and Plymouth (MP 80.85), on or about March 8, 2019. Documents will apparently be filed with the STB under docket number FD 36262. The notice was sent from Lake State to CSX employees as required by law. It will be interesting to see a different railroad operating in SE Michigan. Get your photos of CSX D735, D736, and D737 soon!
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby 1TrackMind » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:02 am

Some guys were talking about this today. Gives LSRC access to CN now.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby MiddleMI » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:30 am

Edit: Misunderstood the line we were talking about.
Last edited by MiddleMI on Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:22 am

I wonder how CSX will direct its PH&D traffic now
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby ~Z~ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:25 am

MiddleMI wrote:Okay, so part of the CSX Saginaw Subdivision is. Funny enough, it appears this was updated on the line's Wiki page on the first of December, but with no citations, and the CSX system map already shows this part of the line as leased to a "short line partner." Looks like we're late to the game.

Can you give links to your websites that you found the wiki updates, and the CSX system map updates?
I pulled up both https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/ and CSX's printable system map, and both show CSX still owning north to Mt Morris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_State_Railway also shows ownership just through Mt Morris as well; no mention of Plymouth.

Not saying that this sale isn't being tried for or anything, just wanted to see the system map and wiki you speak of. Attached is the notice sent out:
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby SD80MAC » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:33 am

AARR wrote:I wonder how CSX will direct its PH&D traffic now

The notice states CSX is retaining trackage rights on CN between Port Huron and Flint. My guess would be that they will continue to run D711 from Port Huron to Flint and back, and LSRC will handle the traffic down to Plymouth, at least for now. I’m sure LSRC would love to get their hands on the PH&D at some point.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby KenB » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:29 am

Might not give Lake State access to CN. Since his is a lease CSX may require that all existing traffic go to the CSX at Plymouth or pay a hefty rate. Any "new" traffic would not be subject to this and could go to the CN if an interchange point is agreed to.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby MiddleMI » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:35 am

~Z~ wrote:
MiddleMI wrote:Okay, so part of the CSX Saginaw Subdivision is. Funny enough, it appears this was updated on the line's Wiki page on the first of December, but with no citations, and the CSX system map already shows this part of the line as leased to a "short line partner." Looks like we're late to the game.

Can you give links to your websites that you found the wiki updates, and the CSX system map updates?
I pulled up both https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/ and CSX's printable system map, and both show CSX still owning north to Mt Morris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_State_Railway also shows ownership just through Mt Morris as well; no mention of Plymouth.

Not saying that this sale isn't being tried for or anything, just wanted to see the system map and wiki you speak of. Attached is the notice sent out:


Had a brainfart on the system map. As for the wiki page I was talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_Saginaw_Subdivision
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:52 am

Thank you SD80
SD80MAC wrote:
AARR wrote:I wonder how CSX will direct its PH&D traffic now

The notice states CSX is retaining trackage rights on CN between Port Huron and Flint. My guess would be that they will continue to run D711 from Port Huron to Flint and back, and LSRC will handle the traffic down to Plymouth, at least for now. I’m sure LSRC would love to get their hands on the PH&D at some point.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby ~Z~ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:07 pm

MiddleMI wrote:Had a brainfart on the system map. As for the wiki page I was talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_Saginaw_Subdivision


On the CSX saginaw subdivison wiki page, there's nothing about Mt Morris to Plymouth being anything but CSX controlled. Where are you reading that LSRC has Mt Morris to Plymouth on it?
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm

I wonder if this is the "CSX selling track in Michigan" rumor that started a few days ago? This lease makes sense to extend Lake State's network.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby GreatLakesRailfan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:30 pm

As much as LSRC would like to get their hands on the PH&D traffic, I wonder if they're willing to pay what CSX wants for the line? I can't imagine that CSX would give away the line, and from what's been said about their profits on traffic on the line, I would think that the asking price would be pretty high

Also, something that came up in a conversation earlier- would CSX be able to transfer their trackage rights across the Flint Sub from Flint to PH? I don't recall having anything documenting the specifics of the agreement in which they spun off the line to Saginaw in order to run the trackage rights on CN to Flint, and whether or not those rights can be transferred.


SD80MAC wrote:
AARR wrote:I wonder how CSX will direct its PH&D traffic now

The notice states CSX is retaining trackage rights on CN between Port Huron and Flint. My guess would be that they will continue to run D711 from Port Huron to Flint and back, and LSRC will handle the traffic down to Plymouth, at least for now. I’m sure LSRC would love to get their hands on the PH&D at some point.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby MQT1223 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:02 pm

justalurker66 wrote:I wonder if this is the "CSX selling track in Michigan" rumor that started a few days ago? This lease makes sense to extend Lake State's network.


Well considering its only a Lease and not a buyout I'd say no.

If CSX is going to run on CN from Port Huron to Flint, would that mean we'd expect an occasional run through train from Flint to Plymouth by CSX on the LSRC run trackage? I'm not aware of how CSX runs the PH&D, but I was under the impression they didn't leave any power on that part of the line.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby SD80MAC » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:31 pm

Port Huron is home to 1 or 2 local/yard jobs plus the D711 Flint turn. There has always been locals based in PH but the D job wasn’t based there until they closed Flint as a crew base around 2013.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby JoJames » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:39 pm

Will be interesting to see what happens with the trackage in Canada.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:10 am

MQT1223 wrote:
justalurker66 wrote:I wonder if this is the "CSX selling track in Michigan" rumor that started a few days ago? This lease makes sense to extend Lake State's network.
Well considering its only a Lease and not a buyout I'd say no.

Rumors often have a seed of truth mixed with erroneous information. Assuming control via lease instead of purchasing the line is a technical error.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby GreatLakesRailfan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:54 pm

SD80MAC wrote:Port Huron is home to 1 or 2 local/yard jobs plus the D711 Flint turn. There has always been locals based in PH but the D job wasn’t based there until they closed Flint as a crew base around 2013.


Is it considered to be based in PH yet, or did it move back to Flint, SD80MAC? I know it functions something like a turn job now, where the train arrives at PH, drops the inbound cars and takes the outbound cars, which are ready to go, right back to Flint. So I'd be surprised if it's considered to be a PH-based job, but I don't recall hearing that the job had been moved back to Flint.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby blueheron13 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:24 pm

Last I heard, the D711 turn job is based in Flint. Aren't the local jobs (on the line between St. Clair and Port Huron) based in the yard north of Yankee Rd?
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:29 am

blueheron13 wrote:Last I heard, the D711 turn job is based in Flint. Aren't the local jobs (on the line between St. Clair and Port Huron) based in the yard north of Yankee Rd?

Nothing has been based in Flint since it was closed as a crew terminal a few years ago.
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Re: Lake State to Lease CSX Line from Plymouth to Mt. Morris

Unread postby blueheron13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 pm

I mean it originates in Flint just like D736. Maybe I'm not using the right terms?
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