Ithaca Ethanol

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hoborich
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by hoborich »

E10 is hard on small engines, outboards, lawn tractors, scooters, chain saws,etc. Gunks up the carb, and destroys gaskets and seals. I use 90 octane rec gas in my outboard. No idea how they get 90 octane without ethanol.
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Jetlink
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by Jetlink »

Agreed. Those systems aren't designed with ethanol in mind. I've had similar poor experiences. RIP my old weed eater.

The alternatives to ethanol to boost octane ratings exist but are more expensive. Ethyl tert-butyl ether and 2,2,4-Trimethylpentane, also known as isooctane or iso-octane can both be used. Currently the industrial processes to create these compounds are more expensive than ethanol so they aren't used large scale.

My father-in-law in was a fuel testing lab engineer for GM and I had some direct involvement with the ethanol plant in Woodbury. I've also hauled a lot of bushels of corn to Woodbury. I don't claim to be a chemist but have some decent understanding of the technical side and the politics, on both sides, of the ethanol issue. Most people think it is purely a political issue but that's only part of it. The other part is cheap octane and those dollars talk. That's why the ethanol plants are still around even though the favorable political winds have shifted.
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Railfanjunction
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by Railfanjunction »

I wonder if the plant's building has anything to do with a $3 million grant awarded to the Michigan Department of Agriculture last year to increase capacity for ethanol blends (the link says E85 and E15) at gas stations around the state. The grant was awarded around a year ago so timing wise the plant's building could be related to it.

http://www.micorn.org/corn-uses/ethanol ... re-program

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railroader and son
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by railroader and son »

The plant in Ithaca that will we be built is a Soybean processing plant,not ethanol. The property was for a ethanol plant originally,but that went belly up.

MSchwiebert
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

The corn varieties used for corn flakes and ethanol purposes are not the same, so unless Kellog's was to contract with farmers in the area to grow the corn variety they needed, the presence of an ethanol facility would have no impact on the price of corn flakes. Besides, given the cost of corn of any type now it's pretty easy to tell that leading cost input for a box of cereal is certainly not the grain used.
Norm wrote:IMO, they should stop production of ethanol except for enough corn-squeezin's to keep Willie Nelson's voice raspy. Tale that nasty stuff out of our gasoline. It'll also help reduce the price of corn flakes.

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AARR
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

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Ethanol corn brings (at least did) a better ROI. So farmers converted from Corn Flake corn to Ethanol corn. With fewer suppliers for Corn Flake corn the price for Kellogg's raw material prices to rose. That is how (at least it did) caused Kellogg's corn raw material prices to increase.

So finally I was able to use something I learned in Economics 101 for something meaningful :D
MSchwiebert wrote:The corn varieties used for corn flakes and ethanol purposes are not the same, so unless Kellog's was to contract with farmers in the area to grow the corn variety they needed, the presence of an ethanol facility would have no impact on the price of corn flakes. Besides, given the cost of corn of any type now it's pretty easy to tell that leading cost input for a box of cereal is certainly not the grain used.
Norm wrote:IMO, they should stop production of ethanol except for enough corn-squeezin's to keep Willie Nelson's voice raspy. Tale that nasty stuff out of our gasoline. It'll also help reduce the price of corn flakes.
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Michael
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by Michael »

A list of ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada if any is interested.
http://www.pure-gas.org/
http://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html MAP


I don't understand how there can be up to 15% ethanol in all gasoline sold when all the owners manuals of most vehicles (not E-85) say not to use any ethanol :?

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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by PatAzo »

Michael wrote:I don't understand how there can be up to 15% ethanol in all gasoline sold when all the owners manuals of most vehicles (not E-85) say not to use any ethanol :?
It's driven by the 1990 Clean Air Act and Energy Independence and Security Act 2007. The auto industry reluctantly follows the federal requirements for refiners to blend in ethenol and fuel from "renewable" sources. Ford for example o.k.'d E15 for use in it's 2013 and newer vehicles. E10 was o.k. to use quite a bit earlier.

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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

Not saying they can't - but I'd be really surprised that Kellog's just purchases corn on the open market. If/when they decide to go GMO free - that'll come to an end in a hurry.
AARR wrote:Ethanol corn brings (at least did) a better ROI. So farmers converted from Corn Flake corn to Ethanol corn. With fewer suppliers for Corn Flake corn the price for Kellogg's raw material prices to rose. That is how (at least it did) caused Kellogg's corn raw material prices to increase.

So finally I was able to use something I learned in Economics 101 for something meaningful :D
MSchwiebert wrote:The corn varieties used for corn flakes and ethanol purposes are not the same, so unless Kellog's was to contract with farmers in the area to grow the corn variety they needed, the presence of an ethanol facility would have no impact on the price of corn flakes. Besides, given the cost of corn of any type now it's pretty easy to tell that leading cost input for a box of cereal is certainly not the grain used.
Norm wrote:IMO, they should stop production of ethanol except for enough corn-squeezin's to keep Willie Nelson's voice raspy. Tale that nasty stuff out of our gasoline. It'll also help reduce the price of corn flakes.

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AARR
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by AARR »

Maybe I didn't emphasize I learned this in a community college economics class. Your point is invalid :lol:
MSchwiebert wrote:Not saying they can't - but I'd be really surprised that Kellog's just purchases corn on the open market. If/when they decide to go GMO free - that'll come to an end in a hurry.
AARR wrote:Ethanol corn brings (at least did) a better ROI. So farmers converted from Corn Flake corn to Ethanol corn. With fewer suppliers for Corn Flake corn the price for Kellogg's raw material prices to rose. That is how (at least it did) caused Kellogg's corn raw material prices to increase.

So finally I was able to use something I learned in Economics 101 for something meaningful :D
MSchwiebert wrote:The corn varieties used for corn flakes and ethanol purposes are not the same, so unless Kellog's was to contract with farmers in the area to grow the corn variety they needed, the presence of an ethanol facility would have no impact on the price of corn flakes. Besides, given the cost of corn of any type now it's pretty easy to tell that leading cost input for a box of cereal is certainly not the grain used.

IMO, they should stop production of ethanol except for enough corn-squeezin's to keep Willie Nelson's voice raspy. Tale that nasty stuff out of our gasoline. It'll also help reduce the price of corn flakes.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

hoborich
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

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You forgot corn chips.
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barnstormer
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by barnstormer »

Jetlink wrote:
Woodbury was built on a rail line to bring corn in in the event of a famine and to send loads out in the event local markets didn't develop. There are about 3 miles of rail in the plant that don't get used at all. They are all trucks. They are happy that way. They used rail occasionally for a few years but weren't happy with the pricing and level of service.

So this facility in Ithaca is going to handle at least twice as much commodity. Maybe they will use rail. But keep in mind a facility half it's size currently doesn't even though it was built to.
Just a small correction, but the trackage at this plant barely equals a full mile, not 3 miles, and that's up to the derail and includes all switches within the plant. Would be great to have it go full-tilt in the future....but I think I hear the Everly Brother's warming up......D r e a m, dream, dream, dream........ :wink:

-barny

penn central
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

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I went by Zeeland Farm Services today in Ithaca and ground has been broken for the new plant excavators where busy scraping and digging into the dirt.

Todd_F
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by Todd_F »

I'm just curious if there's been any more information about GLC carload possibilities?
Driving by in person last week, it's looks as though work is progressing on the facility.
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by rob »

The Zeeland plant trucks some of the out bound product to the Waverly yard where they use a track to load soy oil. If you look at the satellite picture it's the stub track closest to the yard office. The rail roads keeps 4 tanks on the track and load for the end of the stub and most day they load 2 to 3 tanks a day.

Rob


quote="Raildudes dad"]Thanks for the good info Jetlink. The ZFS facility in Zeeland is all truck as well - no rail although the CSX line isn't too far away.
To be constructed on a 43.5 acre site in Ithaca, Mich., the new facility will initially include grain receiving and storage,soybean processing and feed ingredients transloading. It will be sized to meet the soy processing and soybean meal needs in Michigan for the next generation and beyond.
The quote is from the President of ZFS, bolding is by me. That say Michigan business. They might be able to do something like the MAC on the GLC but not if it involves another railroad.

I work with a company that gets product by rail. If they could do it, it would all arrive by truck:( If I don't babysit the transit, I'm not sure how they would get cars. :( :(

As for the gap at the creek, I'm guessing they were waiting for a DEQ permit and the project shut down before it was issued. Then, no need to finish it if they are not going to use rail.[/quote]

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NS3322
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

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How long have those ex-Southern TSBY hoppers been stored on the siding?

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AARR
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by AARR »

I think they use those to shuttle grain between the MAC transload facility in Cadillac and their plant in Middleton. But to answer your question probably since sometime between 2013 (when foundry sand shipments dropped) and 2016 (when the plant closed).
NS3322 wrote:How long have those ex-Southern TSBY hoppers been stored on the siding?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

penn central
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Re: Ithaca Ethanol

Unread post by penn central »

Time for a bump, I was by the new ZFS mill being built this week and good news the bridge piers and abutments are being installed so the tracks can go over the creek and enter the property. So very good to see.

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