Diann Siding

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Diann Siding

Unread postby redside20 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:20 pm

From a facebook post of the GTWHS page, According to a source the signal at CP Mex (North Diann) and the siding are to be removed at the end of 2017 largely in part to CN and this stupid PTC thing. Where are trains gonna meet then if they need too?...Is the siding at Petersburg still in...They just keep tearing up track after they shortened the double main in Flat Rock. Is anything gonna happen with the interchange tracks with the Ann Arbor?
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby chapmaja » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:53 am

redside20 wrote:From a facebook post of the GTWHS page, According to a source the signal at CP Mex (North Diann) and the siding are to be removed at the end of 2017 largely in part to CN and this stupid PTC thing. Where are trains gonna meet then if they need too?...Is the siding at Petersburg still in...They just keep tearing up track after they shortened the double main in Flat Rock. Is anything gonna happen with the interchange tracks with the Ann Arbor?


I think the need for this siding is long since passed by.

The only trains I know of running on the CN between Diann and Flat Rock at the IORY's turn to Flat Rock, plus possibly one or two CN trains that turn south at Diann on the AA. In the event two trains would be scheduled close to each other, the trains could be held on the AA or in Flat Rock yard until the line is cleared. Petersburg siding is still in place, but has no bearing on the need for the siding near Diann as the only trains running on the line through Petersburg are a lone IORY Delta-Flat Rock turn.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby AARR » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:09 am

The Petersburg siding is used when traffic from ADBF is picked up at Riga that needs to go south. They set it out at Petersburg then pick it up on their way back from Flat Rock. At least they used too...maybe they've changed.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby GP30M4216 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:29 pm

It was some time ago, but I have personally witnessed the CN hold an IORY northbound train south of Diann to allow a CN train to come south and turn toward Toledo ahead of them. They could have met in the Diann siding....but they did not. Either way, I'm glad I got this photo now from when they did finally come north....

Image

In addition to the siding at Petersburg (I have also heard that the crews have used it in the past for the Riga work as AARR described, and cars have sometimes been stored there while waiting to go to and from the AA without clogging up the interchange tracks), is the controlled siding still in place at north Maybee? Is that one also scheduled to be removed? Given today's traffic levels (as outlined above in other posts), having both Maybee and Diann controlled sidings doesn't seem necessary. As someone said, you probably don't need either, but having one would still allow for some flexibility. Diann siding has two fewer road crossings than Maybee.

To the question about the interchange tracks, AA and IORY still have an active interchange at Diann. I'm not sure how many cars go back and forth between the two roads but at least some. Given that IORY owns everything west of the diamond, I don't think a CN siding elimination project would have any effect on the interchange tracks in the NW quadrant near the tower.

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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby Y@ » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:33 pm

Diann and Maybee are both out of service anyway.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby jimnorthwood » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:05 pm

Interesting thread. I didn't know ADBF did any interchange at Riga. I thought everything was taken to Adrian. Riga interchange certainly makes sense, though. When we rode the LCRC just days away from their closure in September, 1990 the LCRC job that used the S-2 #2 that day (#3 had a bad main generator and was o/s, and #1 either had already been scrapped or was about to be) worked the interchange in both Riga and Adrian.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby AARR » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:31 pm

In the past fertilizer, lumber and some grain has been interchanged in Riga. There was a couple ethanol blocks too. Things might have changed though.
jimnorthwood wrote:Interesting thread. I didn't know ADBF did any interchange at Riga. I thought everything was taken to Adrian. Riga interchange certainly makes sense, though. When we rode the LCRC just days away from their closure in September, 1990 the LCRC job that used the S-2 #2 that day (#3 had a bad main generator and was o/s, and #1 either had already been scrapped or was about to be) worked the interchange in both Riga and Adrian.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby Waddy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:38 pm

Grain cars still come in Riga, some did last week. Interchange traffic has gone to Petersburg.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby redside20 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:30 pm

According to this poster, Maybee siding is also slated to be removed as well...Wow
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby CSXBOY » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:34 pm

Thats too bad that the siding is going away. IORY does not even run everyday only like 3-4 times a week. So sometimes there is only 2 trains a day and those are CN 384 and CN 385 :(. I remember when the Shoreline used to be very busy down in Monroe and today its down 4-6 on that line and those are 383, 382, 502, and 391.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby MSchwiebert » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:23 pm

There simply isn't enough traffic up there any more to require them. Given the age of the system and the lack of traffic density, it wouldn't make sense to spend the money on those sidings as part of a PTC upgrade. (Frankly I'm surprised they're doing any sort of PTC work on the former DT&I at all).
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby kckorienek » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:36 pm

CSXBOY wrote:Thats too bad that the siding is going away. IORY does not even run everyday only like 3-4 times a week. So sometimes there is only 2 trains a day and those are CN 384 and CN 385 :(. I remember when the Shoreline used to be very busy down in Monroe and today its down 4-6 on that line and those are 383, 382, 502, and 391.


384 and 385 don't run on that part of the Flat Rock sub, the only trains that end of the sub truly sees are IORY trains and L585. And the Shoreline has more than just that, there are a couple locals that run on it as well.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby CR Cabanaw » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:56 pm

Yes, both sidings will be coming out. North Maybee (Field), South Maybee (Doty) and North Diann (Mex) will all be removed as well. South Maybee will become a holding signal and be renamed Doty like it was when the DT&I owned it. The siding switch at South Diann will come outside of the control point and become an electric lock governing a stub track for southbound hotbox set-offs. All signals will be replaced with Safetran LED's.

******HOWEVER, CTC/PTC upgrading between Detroit and Port Huron on the Mt. Clemens has been expedited which will buy the Flat Rock a bit more time I'm guessing. Removal of the sidings may be put off
until summer of 2018.

Another rumor going around is that the Ann Arbor picked up some new business around Milan if I heard correctly and the guy is going to have steady traffic that will need to be interchanged with the I&O. The Ann Arbor may be adding a 3rd interchange track at Diann.

Otherwise, 585 runs twice a day, once north and then back south, and the I&O sends the Flat Rock Turn just about every other day. The transport of hazardous chemicals on the line from time to time is what is requiring the PTC upgrades. 585 takes priority over 401 so the CN dispatcher will hold the I&O (at Diann if northbound or at Flat Rock if Southbound) until 585 clears the line. It really doesn't seem like they care much about the I&O at all, they'd probably hold him all day and not think twice about it if they had :cry: to. Other than a place for MOW equipment to tie down for the night, the sidings really serve no purpose anymore, unfortunately. :(
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby chapmaja » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:52 pm

CR Cabanaw wrote:Yes, both sidings will be coming out. North Maybee (Field), South Maybee (Doty) and North Diann (Mex) will all be removed as well. South Maybee will become a holding signal and be renamed Doty like it was when the DT&I owned it. The siding switch at South Diann will come outside of the control point and become an electric lock governing a stub track for southbound hotbox set-offs. All signals will be replaced with Safetran LED's.

******HOWEVER, CTC/PTC upgrading between Detroit and Port Huron on the Mt. Clemens has been expedited which will buy the Flat Rock a bit more time I'm guessing. Removal of the sidings may be put off
until summer of 2018.

Another rumor going around is that the Ann Arbor picked up some new business around Milan if I heard correctly and the guy is going to have steady traffic that will need to be interchanged with the I&O. The Ann Arbor may be adding a 3rd interchange track at Diann.

Otherwise, 585 runs twice a day, once north and then back south, and the I&O sends the Flat Rock Turn just about every other day. The transport of hazardous chemicals on the line from time to time is what is requiring the PTC upgrades. 585 takes priority over 401 so the CN dispatcher will hold the I&O (at Diann if northbound or at Flat Rock if Southbound) until 585 clears the line. It really doesn't seem like they care much about the I&O at all, they'd probably hold him all day and not think twice about it if they had :cry: to. Other than a place for MOW equipment to tie down for the night, the sidings really serve no purpose anymore, unfortunately. :(


I don't recall seeing anything that looks like a new customer around Milan. The only possibility is the property next to US-23 where the AA crossed near Cone Rd. There is still a siding into the this property although I'm sure it has long been disconnected from the main. The only other places I can think of that would generate possible traffic for the AA to the IORY are the plant in Saline and the auto supplier in Dundee.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby redside20 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:59 pm

So once on I&O rails where would this traffic go? towards Flat Rock or south towards Delta, Lima, Springfield, etc...What kind of lucrative traffic source is there in Dundee to ship?
Is it a lineside customer who wants rail or will they transload at the yard?
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby Joshua Niederkohr » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:44 am

I say keep the tracks, because if you tear them up it will then be like Riga-Ottawa Lake all over again. This means that eventually you'll want to use them again for a purpose, like the ADBF wants that 7 miles for a HUGE money save. :D
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby chapmaja » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:22 pm

redside20 wrote:So once on I&O rails where would this traffic go? towards Flat Rock or south towards Delta, Lima, Springfield, etc...What kind of lucrative traffic source is there in Dundee to ship?
Is it a lineside customer who wants rail or will they transload at the yard?


Dundee has the engine plant north of town on the AA, with a siding in place. There were several 86 foot boxcars on the interchange tracks at Diann as well in the Google Maps view. Its possible traffic would be from that going down to a plant in Ohio or Indiana. I think the IORY/CIND serves at least one auto plant.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby AARR » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:35 pm

Last I heard the engine plant was shipping 3-4 cars a week. IIRC they went to Mexico.
chapmaja wrote:
redside20 wrote:So once on I&O rails where would this traffic go? towards Flat Rock or south towards Delta, Lima, Springfield, etc...What kind of lucrative traffic source is there in Dundee to ship?
Is it a lineside customer who wants rail or will they transload at the yard?


Dundee has the engine plant north of town on the AA, with a siding in place. There were several 86 foot boxcars on the interchange tracks at Diann as well in the Google Maps view. Its possible traffic would be from that going down to a plant in Ohio or Indiana. I think the IORY/CIND serves at least one auto plant.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby chapmaja » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:11 pm

AARR wrote:Last I heard the engine plant was shipping 3-4 cars a week. IIRC they went to Mexico.
chapmaja wrote:
redside20 wrote:So once on I&O rails where would this traffic go? towards Flat Rock or south towards Delta, Lima, Springfield, etc...What kind of lucrative traffic source is there in Dundee to ship?
Is it a lineside customer who wants rail or will they transload at the yard?


Dundee has the engine plant north of town on the AA, with a siding in place. There were several 86 foot boxcars on the interchange tracks at Diann as well in the Google Maps view. Its possible traffic would be from that going down to a plant in Ohio or Indiana. I think the IORY/CIND serves at least one auto plant.



Since the plant is a Chrysler only plant now, I did some research on what they are building on site.

They are moving the production the Cherokee from Toledo to Belvidere, Il for the 2017. The model does use the 2.4 Tigershark engine produced in Dundee. The routing would seem a bit strange if they were going to ship the engines by rail though. It would have to be AA to IORY to CFE to UP which would seem a bit difficult to make work.

Personally I would be leaning towards something happening at the place near where the AA crosses US-23. That still has a siding in place from the AA (lacking a switch), and is closer to Milan, which the poster who mentioned the new customer specifically mentioned.
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Re: Diann Siding

Unread postby Waddy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:03 am

Does the Dundee plant even ship by rail? Google maps shows American refining tanks being trans loaded there.
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