Pittsfield Township Residents are displeased with the AA

[Doktor No]

You're nit picking CO-Cond, its stupid. You know what it meant. That hasn't been a main line since OLDEN DAYS...and I mean NYC steam.
As for storing junk cars on your property, thats why they have ZONING rules and regualtions. Unless they have a valid plate one can't do it in most Michigan townships, and cities. Last time I looked the right of way of this line was in railroad use and is exempt from ordinances that circumvent federal regualtions. 14th amendment stuff, the exclusivity clause.
No prolly not pretty but sucks to be them I guess....as in Don't move next to the farm if you don't like the smell...

[MiddleMI]

It really is concern trolling of the highest variety.

[Steve B]

I didn't know the railroads had to notify everyone when they're "changing the use" of a line. It's a railroad, doing railroady things. Deal with it.

A historical long view shows that this is far from a new issue. In 1889 the Michigan Supreme Court ruled on a case involving a farmer complaining about storage cars on the old Canada Southern between Grosvenor and Corbus. Corbus was just west of Dundee, at the junction of the LS&MS Monroe Branch. You can read the whole text of the case at various Google Books sources. I've attached screenshots of first the dissent, then the judgement. In this case, the court ruled in favor of the landowner.

It's also worth keeping in mind that the track to Saline has been there 145 years (this summer), far more than the vague "100 years" a lot of Mlive commenters say.

[Saturnalia]

Neighbors need to suck it up and move on.

You buy next to a rail line, you have to deal with it in whatever case. Be it 2000 trains a day, storage or dormant. Noise, visual and ground vibrations included.

NIMBY? Then move.

Why can't people accept problems as theirs? It's always pawning it off to the next guy.

[CSX_CO]

It really is concern trolling of the highest variety.

You seem to have a problem with people posting a dissenting opinion. Seen it several times. Life isn't black and white, and there are plenty of opposing views out there. You'd be wise to embrace them, rather than calling everything "trolling" as you are wont to do. It tends to drive the people away if they're called "trolls", and kills the discussion. Last I checked, this was a "discussion" board, not a "everybody has to have the same opinion" board. Also, I've been on this board 10 yrs now, so I'm hardly the "troll" you imply.

Looks like the courts back in the 1890's sided with the landowner. Oddly enough for the same reasons being brought up now: maintaining neatness, "natural beauty," etc. in the case presented, Railroad deed was conveyed for the railroad to "run trains" and storing cars didn't fall within the scope of their deed. So, it is a matter of "semantics" in the courts eyes. So much more to this business than hitching up some cars, finding a pretty painted engine, and going "toot toot". Horribly complex business.

I'll have to do some digging, but not the first time in recent years that a town has had a problem with storage cars causing "visual blight". New Castle Indiana was the site of a short line storing a long string of auto racks back in the last recession. These were stored in town, and created a "wall" through town. I'll have to see if there was any official legal resolution. I do know the racks were moved out of town, but don't know if that was because the industry rebounded, or the short line was tired of the negative press.

[Ben Higdon]

Time for the landowners to plant some trees.

[CSX_CO]

Time for the landowners to plant some trees.

Finally someone presents a logical solution to the problem other than "shut up and suck it up"....

[CSX_CO]

Neighbors need to suck it up and move on.

You buy next to a rail line, you have to deal with it in whatever case. Be it 2000 trains a day, storage or dormant. Noise, visual and ground vibrations included.

Let's change the industry for a minute and use that 2000 number.

I buy a nice place in the country, next to a farm. Guy has some nice fields, and a few hogs. I don't mind the smell as it isn't constant, and the animal noise isn't bad at all. Then one day, the guy decides that those 20 head of hogs just aren't making enough money. He wants to build a massive barn and raise 2000 hogs at a time. Suddenly, that bucolic farm, is now an "industrial" one. Now, the noise factor and smell are going up exponentially. Never mind truck traffic of feed and outbound hogs going by increasing. By your train of thought, I should just "deal with it" since I moved in next to a farm. Nevermind the scope has changed from what I originally moved next to, and was perfectly content with at the start. By your train of thought, I have no reason to be mad because I should have expected this.

[Saturnalia]

Neighbors need to suck it up and move on.

You buy next to a rail line, you have to deal with it in whatever case. Be it 2000 trains a day, storage or dormant. Noise, visual and ground vibrations included.

Let's change the industry for a minute and use that 2000 number.

I buy a nice place in the country, next to a farm. Guy has some nice fields, and a few hogs. I don't mind the smell as it isn't constant, and the animal noise isn't bad at all. Then one day, the guy decides that those 20 head of hogs just aren't making enough money. He wants to build a massive barn and raise 2000 hogs at a time. Suddenly, that bucolic farm, is now an "industrial" one. Now, the noise factor and smell are going up exponentially. Never mind truck traffic of feed and outbound hogs going by increasing. By your train of thought, I should just "deal with it" since I moved in next to a farm. Nevermind the scope has changed from what I originally moved next to, and was perfectly content with at the start. By your train of thought, I have no reason to be mad because I should have expected this.

If the zoning and local planning commission approve, you've gotta deal with it.

[CSX_CO]

Your perspective will change when you own property of your own.

[Typhoon]

If the zoning and local planning commission approve, you've gotta deal with it.

Or you try to change the zonning around you. It really is sad how many people have a knee jerk reaction to favor the railroad here. The locals complaining about this have a legitament complaint. The arrogance that railroads have shown with the regards to where they choose to store cars will catch up to them, with new laws and legislations.

[hoborich]

So, if I had a empty field next to your house, you would have no problem with me parking all manner of junk cars, trucks, vans, trailers, etc in full view of your property? Also in view of any prospective buyers of your house. After all, it's *my* field I can do with it as I please.

If you were there first, and the zoning allowed junk cars, I would have no problem with it! I wouldn't move in next door to you and start female dog about your property!

I buy a nice place in the country, next to a farm. Guy has some nice fields, and a few hogs. I don't mind the smell as it isn't constant, and the animal noise isn't bad at all. Then one day, the guy decides that those 20 head of hogs just aren't making enough money. He wants to build a massive barn and raise 2000 hogs at a time. Suddenly, that bucolic farm, is now an "industrial" one. Now, the noise factor and smell are going up exponentially. Never mind truck traffic of feed and outbound hogs going by increasing.

That would be highly unlikely, due to the environmental impact studies required to change from agricultural, to high impact factory farming. That would also require a new building permit for the "massive new barn", and permits for new manure retention ponds, all of which could be denied. It likely would require a change of zoning to the "industrial farming", which would require approval of surrounding property owners, and subject to denial. But again, if it was legal, deal with it!

Or you try to change the zoning around you. It really is sad how many people have a knee jerk reaction to favor the railroad here.

That would be a waste of time and money. Existing uses and zoning are grandfathered in, so people like you can't move in next door and tell them what they can do with their property. You can't demand your neighbors existing zoning use be changed! It's not a knee jerk reaction to favoring the railroad. It's just a fair is fair issue. You can't move in somewhere and demand your neighbors conform to how you think they should use their property. And as I posted, storing rail cars is a part of normal railroad operations. Doesn't matter if it's a mainline or siding, or yard. Where is it written that only certain railroads can store cars, or where they can be stored?

The arrogance that railroads have shown with the regards to where they choose to store cars will catch up to them, with new laws and legislations.

Ain't gonna happen. The railroad and it's legal department can bury the homeowners in legal costs and delays, hearings and motions for years to come. The legislators are owned by the corporations. Everybody knows that.

[CSX_CO]

So, what you're saying is the average citizen is required to follow the zoning and stipulations of the land deed, but the railroads aren't. That's in spite of the legal precedent that was set regarding "running trains" on a deed.

It speaks volumes that the two actual employees on this thread are on the side of being a "good neighbor" and the "fans" are advocating people "suck it up."

[J T]

Time for the landowners to plant some trees.

My first thought. Plus, it's good for the environment. Double bonus!

[Typhoon]

Ain't gonna happen. The railroad and it's legal department can bury the homeowners in legal costs and delays for years to come. The legislators are owned by the corporations. Everybody knows that.

http://sunthisweek.com/2013/06/05/parke ... -concerns/

"U.S. Rep. John Kline and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have written the U.S. Surface Transportation Board seeking resolution, and U.S. Sen. Al Franken has also raised concerns."

One of these days the railroads are going to store cars in the wrong persons district. That will be that.

[hoborich]

So, it's the railroads fault that unsupervised yuppie kids trespass and play on the railroads property and cars, and paint graffiti all over them. Is that your position?
Those politicians can write all the letters they want. The railroad is fully within it's rights. The Surface Transportation Board already explained that to them. And those homeowners in the linked article can still sell their houses, although they may not reap the windfall they had hoped. The town assessor has already given them a 5% property assessment reduction. And when the railroad moves the cars and their taxes go back up to previous levels, they will be screaming about that.
Typhoon, you change colors like a chameleon. You are the first one to scream about any foamers/fans trespassing, in any way shape or form.

[Typhoon]

So, it's the railroads fault that unsupervised yuppie kids trespass and play on the railroads property and cars, and paint graffiti all over them. Is that your position?

I never said that. I see reading is a skill you still have not mastered. As I have stated, railroads storing cars wherever they feel like it is going to come back to bite them. Getting on the bad side of US senators, like Al Franken, is bad way to do business. It will come back to bite them. At one time there were no regulations on how long railroads could block crossings, however after much abuse, there are now laws and fines when they do. Tick off the wrong politician, who is an up and comer, or whose vote is needed for something else, is all that is needed to get a new bill started.

[hoborich]

U.S. Rep. John Kline and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have written the U.S. Surface Transportation Board seeking resolution, and U.S. Sen. Al Franken has also raised concerns.

A Surface Transportation Board spokesman who asked that his name not be published said there are no regulations for stored freight cars, and since railroads are privately owned, they are free to store cars as needed on their own property.

What part of this do you not understand?
Al Franken should stick to standup.

[CSX_CO]

U.S. Rep. John Kline and Sen. Amy Klobuchar have written the U.S. Surface Transportation Board seeking resolution, and U.S. Sen. Al Franken has also raised concerns.

A Surface Transportation Board spokesman who asked that his name not be published said there are no regulations for stored freight cars, and since railroads are privately owned, they are free to store cars as needed on their own property.

What part of this do you not understand?
Al Franken should stick to standup.

What part of "tick off the wrong senator and there will be" don't you understand?

[Doktor No]

The 'blocking crossing laws' have been struck down time and again in federal courts...thats TIME AND AGAIN. Here in Michigan look up Plymouth Michigan vs CSX and Holland Michigan vs. CSX. Tossed out tens of thousands in fines. And that was the Federal District Court in Cincinnatti I believe.
And using a 100 year old precedent from MS vs whomever in far southeastern michigan has been overuled numerous times. Sorta like Dred Scott and Seperate but Equal was tossed some years ago. BUT they had precedence for some time.