Woodward Light Rail

[ns8401]

On they busy lines they were on very close spacing, only a couple of minutes. So it is doable.

You know traffic conditions were so much different than today's busy city landscape...

...well I guess this is getting boring with the same refrains... moving on

And the cities and densely populated areas were pure every man for himself chaos. It was much worse then, than it is now. Literally people everywhere, walking in front of any and everything with no order and no mercy. Your traffic jam is a picnic in comparison.

[sgavan]

Like This...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZI ... detailpage[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZI ... detailpage

[ns8401]

Like This...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZI ... detailpage[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZI ... detailpage

Yep... just like modern China.

[Typhoon]

Russ, Chicago's Metra, this system suburbs are indeed built on, are DEDICATED right-of-ways, and a system that spans the entire metro area, not just a 3-mile streetcar doodlebug.

For one, I cannot imagine the capacity of Metra or the El running down a street. You'd need a streetcar like every 10 seconds at rush hour...you'd never get it on streetcars...period.

A long standing, and outdated, dispatching term is "running them like streetcars." It is used when you have many trains running nose to tail. It comes from the way streetcars were run during rush hours in the past. On like 10 second headways......

[Michael]

For those of you interested in the progress of the M1 rail and what Woodward Avenue currently looks like, Google has Street View imagery from as recently as last month.

[GTW6401]

I get down Woodward fairly often and this project is far from completion. North of Mack Avenue it looks more like a road construction project than anything resembling light rail.

[wyrickj]

Atleast the street lights are getting replaced quickly

[MiddleMI]

I get down Woodward fairly often and this project is far from completion. North of Mack Avenue it looks more like a road construction project than anything resembling light rail. This photo of Amtrak was taken in June, and the area looks about the same this week.

To be clear, along with the actual streetcar line construction this is also a road construction project. It's also weird to frame this as "far from completion", because no one has claimed otherwise. The project is largely on schedule since its groundbreaking. Anyway, thanks for the photo, I guess.

[hoborich]

I remember growing up in Detroit back in the .......umm....40s. If you missed a streetcar, you could see the next one coming a couple blocks up the street.

[J T]

I remember growing up in Detroit back in the .......umm....40s. If you missed a streetcar, you could see the next one coming a couple blocks up the street.

In the 40s, you say? You'll probably appreciate this photo then. While looking through one of my dad's old photo albums a week ago, I came across this image. I believe his old brother took the picture.

[hoborich]

Looks familiar. That is one of the newer streetcars. I remember the old Peter Witt cars. You really didn't need a car back in the 40s and 50s. Street cars ran on Woodward, Claremont, Jefferson, Warren, Linwood, and several more streets. And buses ran on smaller streets, Lawton, Dexter, Grand Boulevard, Livernois, and more. North of 8 mile was farm country. And people took trains or boats on vacations. In addition to the BobLo boats, there were several steamships docked at the foot of Woodward area. You could take a steamship to Buffalo, Cleveland, Mackinaw and other ports on the Great Lakes. There were no freeways yet. And most people took the streetcars and busses to work or shop. People who had cars only drove them on Sundays. You probably never heard the term Sunday driver. It was someone who only drove on the weekend, and didn't know how to drive.
Back in the late 50s, I used to drive downtown and ride the streetcar out to the fairgrounds turnaround and back downtown, just for the helluva it. I think the fare was a quarter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szPZjCr6B2A

[ConrailMan5]

I run into Sunday drivers every day on my commute! I used that term on my friends and they looked at me confused lol!

Were you growing up when the interurban system could take you to Jackson or AA, or is that before your time hoborich? I sure would kill for DET or AA to have a public rail transit system like that. TheRide does Well, but streetcars would be way cooler

[Ypsi]

The Ypsi-Ann quit in 1929, so most likely the days of going nearly cross state via street cars and interior and predates hoborich. I did research on the topic of local street cars 3 years ago so I know much about the scene around Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor, but of course not really Detroit. But thanks to that 1929 date I can draw at least the conclusion that hoborich wasn't likely attending classes at the U of M via trolley

[J T]

I run into Sunday drivers every day on my commute! I used that term on my friends and they looked at me confused lol!

I wouldn't have thought anyone with a driver's license hadn't heard of that term. It's a pretty common term in American culture.

[Saturnalia]

I run into Sunday drivers every day on my commute! I used that term on my friends and they looked at me confused lol!

I wouldn't have thought anyone with a driver's license hadn't heard of that term. It's a pretty common term in American culture.

Don't forget Saturday drivers and my most hated car population, daytime drivers! Trying to get home at 3 always sucks.

Another group I find particularly bad is the west side neighborhood in Grand Rapids. Either slow or crazy. Usually both.

[J T]

I run into Sunday drivers every day on my commute! I used that term on my friends and they looked at me confused lol!

I wouldn't have thought anyone with a driver's license hadn't heard of that term. It's a pretty common term in American culture.

Don't forget Saturday drivers and my most hated car population, daytime drivers! Trying to get home at 3 always sucks.

Another group I find particularly bad is the west side neighborhood in Grand Rapids. Either slow or crazy. Usually both.

The worst of all are "drivers-who-aren't-me"! Always getting in my way...screw 'em all!

[GP30M4216]

Awesome photo of a PCC DSR streetcar at work on the Woodward line! This is from the first order of cars which was delivered in 1947. A second order, slightly larger in size, came in 1949. The last streetcar line was discontinued on April 8, 1956, and the cars were packed off to Mexico where some operated for 3+ decades longer in revenue service.

You can learn more about the PCC era in Detroit and see additional photos here; http://www.detroittransithistory.info/P ... CCera.html

PCC streetcars continue to operate in regularly scheduled transit service in Boston, Philadelphia, Kenosha, WI, and San Francisco.

[hoborich]

OK, I'm 74. It's out there. Deal with it.

I was born in 1941, became aware of stuff in the mid 40s. At that time, most people lived in cities. And that's where all the services were. And they were good services. Schools, fire stations, police stations in every neighborhood. I don't recall the interurbans, although I heard talk of them. The Woodward streetcar, now known as Wootwert, ended and turned around at the fairgrounds, and you can still see some of the tracks showing through the pavement. Most people walked or took the busses and streetcars to work. There were streetcars on Grand River, busses on Dexter, Lawton, and streetcars on Linwood, and more busses on 12th street. Many bus and streetcar lines were only a couple blocks apart, such as Dexter, Lawton, and Linwood, and 12th. So you never had far to walk. Transfers were free.
My grandmother used to take me down to the foot of West Grand Blvd, and park by the railroad tracks to see the Pere Marquette streamliner come in every evening to the Fort Street Depot. I still don't know if granny was a railroad fan, or just trying to keep a little kid occupied.
Growing up in the 40s and 50s, I am still puzzled how everything worked so well back in the day, and nothing works today. Every kids dad had a job. Most men could work for the same company their entire lives, and retire with a gold watch, fishing pole, and a good pension. Every kids mother was home after school making dinner. There was almost no crime. We walked to school. There were no child molesters. No drugs. No shootings in the schools. What the hell happened?

End of rant. We now return you to your normal programming.

[wagnew0923]

What is the point of a trolley system vs. a bus Whether a large network such as Detroit use to be or Newark is today or a small network like we are building now, what is the advantages of a Trolley over a wheeled vehicle and the advantages of light rail which is really hot now vs. commuter rail.

As far as I can tell the Trolley has to follow traffic lights, and carries the same number of people.

[PerRock]

Yes most streetcar systems have to follow the lights. However often the lights are programmed to favour the trams so stopping is minimised.

Commuter rail is railroads that connected regional areas to a city, trams/light rail moves people around the city. A good city uses both, Detroit essentially has neither.

And no most streetcars these days can haul many more people then a bus. For example the Siemens Combining Supra can haul 350 people in it! (The average bus you see around here holds about 70 at its Max)

Peter