DTE Rail Project

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.
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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

Henry F. Burger wrote:It boils down to who bid the cheaper haul rate and has the haul connections
It easier to haul it to Lincoln yard then go south on their trackage then it is to do a long run around after pulling the yard
Not the case here. The NS was having problems with moving the loads and empties. Crews, staging etc. The same reason the NS lost the coal traffic for the River Rouge power plant (R2P2) to the CN. Being Trenton is within Conrail's realm, the NS & CSX can fight over the traffic OR try to offer competitive rates to the customers. Of course, this can only happen when the contract is up. If the customer is unhappy they can choose the other one. The contract for R2P2 is coming up and the CN hasn't delivered like they promised and it looks like someone else will get the work.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by sandpatch1 »

Mr Burger is right,
the contact is with CN and will be for the next year.
NS did not bid on the business in 2014.

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

sandpatch1 wrote:Mr Burger is right,
the contact is with CN and will be for the next year.
NS did not bid on the business in 2014.
Did you read the post ? The Trenton power plant coal trains are being delivered by the CSX and not the CN. The CSX has haulage rights with the CN over the Shoreline sub, to Gibraltar rd. The empties have to return to Toledo via the CR /CSX Lincoln Secondary. It was more of a "No bid" situation and the CSX was the only left.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by MiddleMI »

M.D.Bentley wrote:
sandpatch1 wrote:Mr Burger is right,
the contact is with CN and will be for the next year.
NS did not bid on the business in 2014.
Did you read the post ? The Trenton power plant coal trains are being delivered by the CSX and not the CN. The CSX has haulage rights with the CN over the Shoreline sub, to Gibraltar rd. The empties have to return to Toledo via the CR /CSX Lincoln Secondary. It was more of a "No bid" situation and the CSX was the only left.
It's funny, because the CSX system map on their website shows a CSX operating agreement with CN/GTW down the Shore Line only to Monroe. Is there map not correct? What's also a little weird is that there map shows CSX on the Contrail Detroit Line down to Gibraltar Road, but only shows the line along the soutbound western main line (Track 1). It's possible they didn't want to be that detailed or confuse by showing their operations on the northbound main line (Track 2) since it's right up next to the Shore Line. Either way, it's weird they don't showing the operating agreement/tracking rights all the way down the Shore Line, because that's basically the only way they could get the coal up the line before switching over to the Detroit Line at Gibralter Road, right?

BTW, I finally figured out what was confusing me about the configuration of the Shore Line and the Detroit Line. A lot of maps (and particularly the diagrams as one would expect) don't show the physical seperation between the Detroit Lines two mainlines. South of FN Tower, Track 1 (southbound) splits west just north of the Trenton Engine Plant and travels half-a-mile west of Track 2 (northbound) which parallels the Shore Line. They don't come back into spitting distance and interact with each other again until at and around CP-LaSalle.

As for my confusion over the configuration of the Shore Line, I think what confused me about it was it being described as single-track on its wikipedia page, and if you don't know the line and see how long the sidings are, you can get the tracks mixed up with the Detroit Line's mainlines and/or mix up its north and southbound sidings. Right south of FN Tower it appears to be double-tracked for many miles, but maybe that's just a long siding? As an example for a northbound train on the Shore Line to access the northbound Detroit Line just south of Gibraltar Road would mean that the western most shoreline track is also northbound? Because that's the only connection at that location; the cross doesn't access the eastern-most Shore Line track, which I'd just assumed was northbound.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by sandpatch1 »

Yes read the post, and was responding to this part on River Rouge,
The contract for R2P2 is coming up and the CN hasn't delivered like they promised and it looks like someone else will get the work.
NS did not bid on DTE coal So CSX got the contract. in 2014,
take Mr Bergers word for it . He works for DTE and is a expert on Coal Movements. As well as most train movements in Michigan.
jd.

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

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Image[/url] The escape switch at the north end was removed a few years ago.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by MiddleMI »

Bentley, do you know what CN uses the Shore Lines direct lead into the main plant for? I'm guessing it's just for machinery and such since Conrail's line and yard carries the coal. Also, what's the name of their 4-track yard which feeds into this lead?

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Re: DTE Rail Project

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The lead off the D&TSL into Trenton Channel PP just goes into the plant about 15 car lenghts. Track in front of transformers is paved over as is the track into the condensor room. All other tracks are gone.
Coal comes by boat or at "new" dumper between MC and LSMS tracks, is conveyed to plant. If they really had to tracks could be uncovered to move a BIG piece of equipment.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

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KenB wrote:The lead off the D&TSL into Trenton Channel PP just goes into the plant about 15 car lenghts. Track in front of transformers is paved over as is the track into the condensor room. All other tracks are gone.
Coal comes by boat or at "new" dumper between MC and LSMS tracks, is conveyed to plant. If they really had to tracks could be uncovered to move a BIG piece of equipment.
Yeah, I understand where the coal comes from and where it's conveyed, as it's something we'd discussed in quite a bit of detail, here.

I'm was just interested in the CN lead into the reactor building (which you've answered, and I which thought was still in use from the Bing Map aerials I was viewing), and the name and use of the CN yard right there off the Shore Line and next door to Conrail's DTE yard.

I just find it interesting that the current rail infrastructure which serves the plant isn't the rail infrastructure immediately next to it. The current CN rail operations and infrastructure cut right between the plant and its rail operations and infrastructure. Seems like a pretty unusual set-up.

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

Prior to the NEW dumper being installed (1960s). The coal trains were pulled across Jefferson ave. and dumped. If you chech out the Wayne State library for the DTE aerial maps that show a lot of details of the area.

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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by MiddleMI »

M.D.Bentley wrote:Prior to the NEW dumper being installed (1960s). The coal trains were pulled across Jefferson ave. and dumped. If you chech out the Wayne State library for the DTE aerial maps that show a lot of details of the area.
Do you know the name of the old yard off the CN/GTW tracks, though, the one right next door to the current yard? Was it just called the Edison Yard like the current one on the Detroit Line?

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

The CN/DTS&L yard to the east of the dumper is Edison yard. Main,siding and 3 yard tracks. Also leads to Eastman/Solutia.

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AARR
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Re: DTE Rail Project

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M.D. Thanks for posting the track plan. I wondered what it looked like through there.

Does the Chrysler plant still ship anything by rail?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: DTE Rail Project

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Those maps are old (1998) Chrysler no long ships by rail. Had to do with the NS (shortly after the split) shoving a whole empty steel train for Great Lakes Steel (now USS Great Lakes Works) into the plant collapsing the roof and destroying millions of dollars work of equipment. Chrysler wanted nothing to do with rail traffic after that. The NB siding is gone as well as all the tracks on Chrysler's property. Two switches at Trenton were removed (one to the #1 tk and one to the #2 tk) as well as the yard office and team track. At the Trenton Channel plant the escape switch was removed a few years back.

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