Fatal car train crash near Traverse City Today

[hoborich]

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1172161

The Wexford County Sheriff says the car hit the train just north of Manton -- where the tracks cross east 14 Road near Business 131.

The driver of the car, Kathryn Paddock of Manton, died at the scene. No one else was in the car.

There are car parts scattered around the area. Police and emergency responders were on scene investigating, and cleaning up the crash.

[MQT1223]

It blows my freaking mind. I am pretty sure someone tried to beat GLC and lost. The trains are hardly long up there why can't you wait an extra minute just to avoid something like this? Now the family is dealing with a loss that could've been prevented.

[Ypsi]

I can't really tell from the wording of that article, did the driver run into the train or did the train get the front end of the car? I looks like they ran into the train based on the heavy front end damage on that van.

[TC Man]

The car ran into the train (loco). For those of you not actually up here, that area had some pretty icy conditions with freezing rain falling at that time. So before some of you start judging, keep in mind that someone just lost their mom, daughter, sister, close friend, etc.

[MQT1223]

The car ran into the train (loco). For those of you not actually up here, that area had some pretty icy conditions with freezing rain falling at that time. So before some of you start judging, keep in mind that someone just lost their mom, daughter, sister, close friend, etc.

I lost my mom when I was 10, a week after my birthday. I know the feeling...

[MIGN-Todd]

One of my co-workers knew the Lady who passed away. Says that there is plenty of visibility there and wonders how she could not see the train. Odd thing is; 20 years prior, another member of her family died there the same way at that same crossing.

[MQT1223]

One of my co-workers knew the Lady who passed away. Says that there is plenty of visibility there and wonders how she could not see the train. Odd thing is; 20 years prior, another member of her family died there the same way at that same crossing.

Now THAT is weird... what crossing was it at? Would help to see the layout of the crossing.

[Saturnalia]

One of my co-workers knew the Lady who passed away. Says that there is plenty of visibility there and wonders how she could not see the train. Odd thing is; 20 years prior, another member of her family died there the same way at that same crossing.

Now THAT is weird... what crossing was it at? Would help to see the layout of the crossing.

I now refer you to the very first post in this thread.

[MQT1223]

One of my co-workers knew the Lady who passed away. Says that there is plenty of visibility there and wonders how she could not see the train. Odd thing is; 20 years prior, another member of her family died there the same way at that same crossing.

Now THAT is weird... what crossing was it at? Would help to see the layout of the crossing.

I now refer you to the very first post in this thread.

I totally forgot that was there...

[James Sofonia]

Here is a shot from Google street view looking West. Fairly clear view of the crossing.





From overhead you can see that due to the angle of 14 road, a car traveling Northbound US 131 at speed can take the left turn without having to slow down very much, say maybe at 25mph. The Northbound locomotive might also been traveling at 25mph. As what happens to boats on an open lake crossing at 90º at the same speed will appear to be motionless relative to each other. In this case the driver might have not noticed the loco right away.

[J T]

From overhead you can see that due to the angle of 14 road, a car traveling Northbound US 131 at speed can take the left turn without having to slow down very much, say maybe at 25mph. The Northbound locomotive might also been traveling at 25mph. As what happens to boats on an open lake crossing at 90º at the same speed will appear to be motionless relative to each other. In this case the driver might have not noticed the loco right away.

From the link in the OP, it states she was traveling eastbound though. And looking at the street view from 131, it appears there are flashers but no gates, but in the photo for the news story, there is a yield sign. I've always been leery about yield signs at rural crossings. So many people just ignore them and blow right through the crossing (and conversely, many people stop for yield signs at street crossings).

[Raildudes dad]

Folks get used to not seeing a train and drive accordingly. Or they think, it's not time for the train and don't slow down. used to do it myself back in the MIGN days. Oh, it's Tuesday, train runs MWF and not even slow down. One day , maybe they didn't run yesterday and are today. I slow down for them all now

[MQT1223]

From overhead you can see that due to the angle of 14 road, a car traveling Northbound US 131 at speed can take the left turn without having to slow down very much, say maybe at 25mph. The Northbound locomotive might also been traveling at 25mph. As what happens to boats on an open lake crossing at 90º at the same speed will appear to be motionless relative to each other. In this case the driver might have not noticed the loco right away.

From the link in the OP, it states she was traveling eastbound though. And looking at the street view from 131, it appears there are flashers but no gates, but in the photo for the news story, there is a yield sign. I've always been leery about yield signs at rural crossings. So many people just ignore them and blow right through the crossing (and conversely, many people stop for yield signs at street crossings).

I honestly think if you did a survey 75% of motorists do not know what a yield sign is or how to respond accordingly to one. I know to.slow down for them but I do it no matter what.

[James Sofonia]

in the photo for the news story, there is a yield sign. I've always been leery about yield signs at rural crossings. So many people just ignore them and blow right through the crossing

For many years before we got electric flashing lights, the RR crossing on Holiday Rd. had RED Stop signs. I would say most drivers including myself came to a complete stop and took a good look. Seems yield signs should only be used on crossings that have almost no trains, and then the trains should just crawl across the grade.

[Saturnalia]

Stop signs suck in places with good visibility. You should only be required to stop where geography dictates that is required to take a good look.

And ALWAYS approach un-lit crossings prepared to stop, unless/until you KNOW, by SIGHT, that the way is going to be clear. This means that if you see anything, you continue to be prepared. Common sense rules.

And honestly, lights should be enough almost everywhere else. Gates actually make lightrunning more dangerous, as it requires a lower transit speed. Those who disregard lights usually do it with gates, too. A quarter million we don't need to be spending on these roads in the middle of nowhere. Flashers should suffice.

[TC Man]

in the photo for the news story, there is a yield sign. I've always been leery about yield signs at rural crossings. So many people just ignore them and blow right through the crossing

For many years before we got electric flashing lights, the RR crossing on Holiday Rd. had RED Stop signs. I would say most drivers including myself came to a complete stop and took a good look. Seems yield signs should only be used on crossings that have almost no trains, and then the trains should just crawl across the grade.

Fun fact: There is not a single crossing in the City of Traverse City limits that has a yield or stop sign. Only in the county outside the city limits. Just crossbucks (or signals in a few crossings). I once asked the traffic department, they told me it would require a traffic study to determine any new sign placements. Really??

[MQT1223]

At least people somewhat follow the stop signs. Anything else and people just blow right through it.

[firemedic54]

Complacency kills...probably has driven across that way before and never seen a train so they became complacent and just figured it was clear. Either way very sad and very preventable.

[J T]

I once asked the traffic department, they told me it would require a traffic study to determine any new sign placements. Really??

I think in this case a death would probably suffice.

[Raildudes dad]

The quote is from the state law. No, a traffic study is not requires to install regulatory signs. Stops signs were installed at RR crossings after the Chippewa County Road Commission lost a law suit in the early 80's. There was a barn on private property at a Soo RR crossing that blocked the view down the tracks. An entire family was killed when the driver didn't stop, look, and listen. The court ruled the Road Commission had a duty to make sure the motorists stopped for the RR crossings but especially in this case. Shortly thereafter, it was "suggested' that all crossings not protected by lights have Stop Signs installed. Later it was decided that Yield signs were acceptable if the vision was adequate. The court also gave the opinion that the RC had an obligation to acquire the barn and remove it. I know the Kent County Road Commission went into a clear vision triangle acquisition program after the court decision.

257.610 Traffic control devices; placement and maintenance by local authorities and county road commissions; compliance with state manual and specifications; noncompliance with statutory provisions; sale, purchase, or manufacture of devices.

Sec. 610.

(a) Local authorities and county road commissions in their respective jurisdictions shall place and maintain such traffic control devices upon highways under their jurisdiction as they may deem necessary to indicate and to carry out the provisions of this chapter or local traffic ordinances or to regulate, warn or guide traffic. All such traffic control devices hereafter erected shall conform to the state manual and specifications.