LSRC now off limits

[sd70accsxt700]

It is being reported by a few people over on Patricks LSRC group that LSRC is now NON RAILFAN friendly. Sounds like someone was posting sensitive info on Dow movements and wondering around the LSRC yard with out permission, taking photos. Supposidly also picking through the trash for switch lists.

Cant say for sure its true, but by the sounds of it a few have asked in the past few days for passes, and have been denied, and told to spred the word.

[tyler_phillips]

This is only directed at "those" people, but way to go! What ever happend to just watching the train pass by and enjoying the sight of it??? Why do they have to go snooping in all of the railroads business? "Those" certain people wouldn't like it if you or I came snooping around THEIR property, posting all of THEIR movements, and snooping in THEIR trash now would they. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this about everyone, just the iodiots that trespass, steal and stick their noses where they don't belong.

[TSB]

...someone was posting sensitive info on Dow movements and wondering around the LSRC yard with out permission, taking photos. Supposidly also picking through the trash for switch lists.

That is the sort of thing that will get the boys in black suits and shades to haul you away for a pleasant
six hour conversation. Maybe worse.

[CAT345C]

I also heard that somebody wanted to swap horns on one of the locomotives with their own, were told no, then they went back and attempted to steal it, but failed.

[AARR]

Another case where one or two spoil it for the rest of us. Can't blame LSRC...they have to protect themselves and don't have the resources to babysit railfans so they make a policy that covers their arses in all cases.

[Mick]

That is the sort of thing that will get the boys in black suits and shades to haul you away for a pleasant
six hour conversation. Maybe worse.

Yeah, like a full-body search with Ivan Big Hands.
Like AARR said...Can't blame LSRC for this---Shades of the E&LS debacle back in the 1980's. When it comes to us railfans, the collective 'we' are our own worst enemy sometimes.


Mick

[chapmaja]

I will only say one thing regarding this picking through the trash issue. If the railroad is putting trash cans out by the side of the road, then picking through the trash, while disgusting is not illegal. Michigan courts have repeatedly ruled that once trash is put out on the side of the road it no longer contains any right to privacy. This has been used as a successfullydefense argument in several cases regarding identidty theft charges. If the trash is still on railroad property then it is illegal as you are trespassing and it is still disgusting.

As for the rest of it. Thanks people (who were tresspassing, ect) I hope you are happy you now have ruined it for the rest of us.

I have no problem with posting information about train movements even cars carrying dangerous chemicals. The movement of these trains is public knowledge because we can see them move from public property. We should be able to post public knowledge on a message board. With that said illegally entering the property to get pictures of said trains should be dealt with according to the law.

[sd70accsxt700]

Sitting here I am trying to think of a response. I just cant think of anything that has not been said before. Mick is right we are our own worst enemy. It just never sinks in. People just continue to not get it. Time and time again people always say "I dont do anyting like that" but yet right on this board, some of the people that scream the most about not tresspassing, staying off RR property, ect give photographric proof that they are the ones that brake it the most. Another example, is equipment parked some where for what ever reason. All the time, and not only here, you see photos of people standing on equipment, parked some where, and im not talking about railroad tourist lines or anythign like that, I am talking about Class !'s or short lines or stuff like that. Now I cant be with everyone all the time, but I would venture to guess that in 90% of those instances "the people" were not invited to be there, they just walked up got on said equipment and got there picture taken. Why for what? So you can say you were on one? What would happen if at that moment in time the RR Police or a offical or some one else drove by and seen you. And after that that person kept doing it anyway? Sooner or later the RR will just park the stuff somewhere where you cant get to it, or put a big fence around it so you cant get to it. Why is it people just cant take there photos and leave, why do they need to tresspass?

And for those who dont think I live by what I say, find some prof of it? Ask anyone who I go out with how I act around the RR when I am not working. Heck when I am off duity, im scared to even drive into the yard I work at.

[sd70accsxt700]

I have no problem with posting information about train movements even cars carrying dangerous chemicals.

I have said the same thing for years. Where I draw the line is, you dont go out screaming I just seen so and so pulling into so and so, with six cars of _______________ (insert what ever hazardous stuff you want). I try to keep it to I seen so and so heading back from Dow with a few tanks.

[GLC 392]

What has been described sounds like a person that use to be on this board known for screwing things up. Im glade i decided to stop up in Saginaw last month to shoot the alcos all sitting at the shop, i feel lucky now that they gave me a pass on the property.

[Warrior]

I've been up and seen the LSRC many times. Truly sad to see this happen. Whoever ruined it is a real class act, that's for sure.

[SD80MAC]

What has been described sounds like a person that use to be on this board known for screwing things up. Im glade i decided to stop up in Saginaw last month to shoot the alcos all sitting at the shop, i feel lucky now that they gave me a pass on the property.

I agree. It was nice to be able to go back and see the roundhouse. All the employees I met were always very friendly and helpful. Whoever screwed up must've did it big time.

[Buster Manning]

Just think Davey Jones, pretty soon the only photos will be taken by rails as they will be the only ones with access to the good stuff---WE CAN BE FAMOUS!!!!

[TrainWatcher]

Thank You "RAILFANS" for another brilliant shut down of a classic Michigan Railroad to anyone who REALLY was hoping to get some photos while on a fall vacation!!!! You did it to the E&LS and their Baldwin RF16's now you do it with the LSRC Alco C425's and the last RS3.... Congratulations... give you self a pat on the back.

But, for our sake, I think the people who did said actions are: IDIOTS


I say they need to be exposed. There is no excuse for them to hide. Names need to be given, and put in public.

[Typhoon]

I say they need to be exposed. There is no excuse for them to hide. Names need to be given, and put in public.

Who says that will do any good? There was a person who last spring turned the NRE in Dixmoore, IL off limits, by doing some stupid stuff while there. He was called out in the Illirail yahoo board. From several sources, the guy is still doing stupid stuff, and the Dixmoore facility is still off limits.

[TrainWatcher]

I think the person should be exposed because those of us in the Michigan Railfan Community should know who to watch out for and report to RR Police and stay away from, if we don't know already (Not saying I don't know any, as I know a few). Its not good to have 5,000 PO'd railfans watching your every move. If I was the person that caused a railroad that was once railfan friendly to become anti-railfan, I sure would want to come clean and admit I made an error than hide like a little girl and be watched and hated by a lot of people.

[GTW6401]

Some people on here need to take a deep breath. Lake State didn't have to let anyone onto their property in the first place, so railfans should be grateful that they did at all.

I wouldn't let anyone just wander around my property due to liability reasons, which could have been a reason to stop folks from coming into the property, or they are just tired of all the foamers coming around lately. Until someone from the railroad states the official reason, its just speculation.

Saginaw Yard is still very accessible from non-railroad property.

[Shorthaul]

I think the person should be exposed because those of us in the Michigan Railfan Community should know who to watch out for and report to RR Police and stay away from, if we don't know already (Not saying I don't know any, as I know a few). Its not good to have 5,000 PO'd railfans watching your every move. If I was the person that caused a railroad that was once railfan friendly to become anti-railfan, I sure would want to come clean and admit I made an error than hide like a little girl and be watched and hated by a lot of people.

I really don't think that anybody deserves the hazing and lecturing that would ensue if the person's name were released. If exposed, I'm sure that this individual would be outcast by most railfans and railroad enthusiasts, even if he doesn't deserve it. Let's face it, it's not like every other railfan is perfect. I'm sure that everybody on this board (including myself) has done something that they have later regretted, and nobody wants to have those moments effect them every time they railfan/are around railfans. Maybe this individual had just discovered his interest in railroads, and was not aware of the fact that what he was doing was detrimental to others. I know that there are many locations near yards without any signs warding off trespassers, even though the locations are railroad property. I don't think it has been confirmed that this person was an experienced railfan, so he may not have realized that his postings about the number/contents of certain tank cars were overkill. If the contents of the car are going to be stenciled on the side, than the railroads know that people will be able to see them. I can't blame him for that, if he was a newbie. As for the trash, that is a little odd, but maybe he just removed the lid to see if the lists were on top. I know if I had the opportunity to get my hands on an old switch list, I would, but maybe not if it involved picking through the trash. If the railroad doesn't want people getting their old lists, then maybe they should shred them.
I think more than anything, the LSRC took the actions that they did because they realized that, weather inadvertantly or not, they were allowing people access to information that they did not want shared. This guy was an example of what could happen if they continued issuing passes. I'm sure with the amount of lawsuits in this day and age, they were already considering closing the doors to outsiders, and this case was the final straw. Let's give this guy a break and move on.

[ETR#101]

With railroads locking thier gates to railfans because of all these homeland security rules, you would think those people responsible would thank their lucky stars there are still RR's willing to let you fart around their property.
shorthaul is right, nobody deserves the harrasment because of this. You NEVER know how much something can escelate when people are passionate about something, and could very well end in bloodshed. I know that sounds silly, but people kill eachother over parking spots.

[TSB]

I did not expect any member of this board to condone the behavior of those involved.
Anyone with any respect for the concept of responsible behavior must condemn those actions.

The sad part is that there are parents that actually raise their children with such lax values
and disrespect for the the law or the rights of others.