Elkhart Western Connection Problem

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justalurker66
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Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by justalurker66 »

I noticed on the codeline (ATSC) that the Grand Elk approach to CP 421 and the old E&W approach have been showing "occupied" for a few days. The E&W bit was strange since that connection has been physically removed at CP 421. I did not see a train between CP421 and the next signal out on Grand Elk but I did find an NS engine and a couple of hoppers stranded on the E&W connection.

The derail handle is banged up so I assume that it was hit by something big. The rail needs to be replaced.
EW161224-1.jpg
EW161224-2.jpg
EW161224-3.jpg

LakeATCS
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by LakeATCS »

This is a common symptom leading up to replacing the interlocking during this PTC cut over.

Since the approach circuits on non signaled leads are simply a convenience and really not really needed for operation, it's common for the maintainers to simply pull the wires and remove the circuit from the existing machine. This results in a "false" occupation shown. This lets them set up the new circuits without worrying about the old. But since this one isn't returning. No need to maintain it.

The grand elk one is more puzzling. That should still be 261 territory. But an open switch or something like that can shunt the track too.

It looks like it's going to stay 261 too. FRA DENIED the request to turn off the CTC on Watco
https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=FRA-2016-0058

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justalurker66
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by justalurker66 »

Until the rebuild of CP 421 next year (nearly "later this year" !!!) I would not expect codeline to change.

I have not spent enough time tracking CP 421. Once the switch was removed (physically) I remember seeing the E&W approach bit light up occasionally but never spent the time to figure out the pattern. I am wondering if there is a section of track from the new switch east (turning north) that is still wired as approach? That would match with having the current train (two covered hoppers and an engine) setting just east of the derail. The broken track should also register as occupancy.

The Grand Elk showing occupancy when there is clearly no train present is odd. Perhaps with the removal of the switch at CP 421 NS wired occupancy on the E&W approach to trigger occupancy on the Grand Elk (since that train would enter the interlocking on Grand Elk's track).

Once they get the broken rail repaired and the train moved I'll need to start monitoring CP 421. Just in time for it all to change. :)

GTW
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by GTW »

I was by CP 421 today and noticed lots of blue flags all over the place.

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justalurker66
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by justalurker66 »

Watching the codeline for the Kalamazoo Branch this weekend.
2WAK is the segment between CP 421 and the holdout.
0TK is the first segment east of the holdout (the last approach block)
3WAK is the second segment east of the holdout (what could be considered the advance block)
5WTK is what I would consider a "do not enter" signal for the EB holdout (either the first block east is occupied or an WB opposing train is approaching)
0WGK and 0EGK are the signals at the holdout.

A typical eastbound train (northbound if you prefer) occupies 2WAK then knocks down 0EGK as it occupies 0TK. 3WAK is not occupied. 5WTK is active while 0TK is active (EB holdout red due to occupancy).

A typical westbound train (southbound if you prefer) has 5WTK go active before any occupancy is shown (I assume when the train is at White Pigeon or when CP 14 is cleared westbound). Then 3WAK (advance approach) goes active. Then 0TK (final approach) goes active. Then 0WGK is knocked down when 2WAK becomes active (train passes holdout). 3WAK and 0TK clear at the same time along with 5WTK. 2WAK clears when the track is unoccupied.

I'll keep watching for an E&W train. I believe 1WAK is still active for trains between the new switch and just east of Monroe St (a now closed crossing). If so it would give us a display when trains come and go on the E&W Industrial Track.

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justalurker66
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by justalurker66 »

I did a little digging and found an example of an E&W train (from Friday 12/30).

12:19:19 - EB train entered 2WA
12:19:33 - EB train cleared 9T - 2WX raised
12:24:49 - 1WA occupied
1WA remained occupied with 2WX raised for over three hours.
15:58:39 - 1WA no longer occupied
15:42:48 - 9WG cleared for WB movement
15:43:02 - 2WX lowered (track back in service)
15:43:42 - WB enters 9T

Based on the three hour timing I assume the crew left the switch open and did not clear the main.
The track being "out of service" while the switch was unlocked fits my expectation.

Until the CP421 rework it appears that we will have an indication for trains using the E&W connection.

LakeATCS
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Re: Elkhart Western Connection Problem

Unread post by LakeATCS »

justalurker66 wrote:I did a little digging and found an example of an E&W train (from Friday 12/30).

12:19:19 - EB train entered 2WA
12:19:33 - EB train cleared 9T - 2WX raised
12:24:49 - 1WA occupied
1WA remained occupied with 2WX raised for over three hours.
15:58:39 - 1WA no longer occupied
15:42:48 - 9WG cleared for WB movement
15:43:02 - 2WX lowered (track back in service)
15:43:42 - WB enters 9T

Based on the three hour timing I assume the crew left the switch open and did not clear the main.
The track being "out of service" while the switch was unlocked fits my expectation.

Until the CP421 rework it appears that we will have an indication for trains using the E&W connection.
I am surprised the maintainers didn't yank the wires from the circuit.

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