South Shore "Double Track" Project

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tadman
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Re: South Shore "Double Track" Project

Unread post by tadman »

I have questions about that as well, I've watched my speedo app on Amtrak trains rolling eastbound along Chicago Street and Huron Street at about 50 mph.

Can a city regulate train speed, and if so, can't the state incentivize the city to change the speed if so? NICTD employs quite a few people in town and takes hundreds to work every day, it's in the city's interest to play ball here.

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justalurker66
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Re: South Shore "Double Track" Project

Unread post by justalurker66 »

One would need to see how the speed was set. If some city decided to set a speed limit on an existing railroad without consultation with the railroad the railroad would probably ignore the speed limit and let the city take the railroad to court where the railroad would win. But if the speed was set in agreement with the city (perhaps as part of the easement allowing the railroad) the railroad may be obligated to comply.

In the case of NICTD's tracks running down city streets, the FRA may require that trains travel at restricted speed under PTC. Separating the rails from the road will allow regular speeds.

NICTD has city speed limits through Gary as well. I do not know it these are limits set in agreement with the city or if the railroad's maximum speed is simply called a city speed limit since that is where the lower speed applies. I have seen reduced speeds on other lines in other cities as well. In general I'd say that they were set due to the characteristics of the railroad (grade, curves, size of ROW) not simply because some city wanted slower trains.

In any case, I would not expect to see Barney Fife out with a radar gun trying to write speeding tickets.

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MQT1223
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Re: South Shore "Double Track" Project

Unread post by MQT1223 »

justalurker66 wrote:One would need to see how the speed was set. If some city decided to set a speed limit on an existing railroad without consultation with the railroad the railroad would probably ignore the speed limit and let the city take the railroad to court where the railroad would win. But if the speed was set in agreement with the city (perhaps as part of the easement allowing the railroad) the railroad may be obligated to comply.

In the case of NICTD's tracks running down city streets, the FRA may require that trains travel at restricted speed under PTC. Separating the rails from the road will allow regular speeds.

NICTD has city speed limits through Gary as well. I do not know it these are limits set in agreement with the city or if the railroad's maximum speed is simply called a city speed limit since that is where the lower speed applies. I have seen reduced speeds on other lines in other cities as well. In general I'd say that they were set due to the characteristics of the railroad (grade, curves, size of ROW) not simply because some city wanted slower trains.

In any case, I would not expect to see Barney Fife out with a radar gun trying to write speeding tickets.
I understand the reasoning behind the NICTD's restrictions. Doing 50 down a street would be catastrophic and downright dangerous for anyone and require one heck of a warning system for pedestrians and motor vehicles. I was more or less focused on the restrictions CSX has in place.
1223 OUT! President and Founder of the Buck Creek Central, the Rolling River Route! (2012-2017) President and Founder of the Lamberton Valley Railroad, The Tin Plate Road! Proudly railfanning with Asperger's since 1996. :)

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justalurker66
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Re: South Shore "Double Track" Project

Unread post by justalurker66 »

MQT1223 wrote:I understand the reasoning behind the NICTD's restrictions. Doing 50 down a street would be catastrophic and downright dangerous for anyone and require one heck of a warning system for pedestrians and motor vehicles. I was more or less focused on the restrictions CSX has in place.
I'd say that any speed restriction that was in the Employee Time Table would be one that the railroad set or agreed to.

For Michigan City, the 1987 timetable shows:
25 MPH Passenger and Freight between 125.3 and 126.2 Michigan City Limits.
30 MPH Passenger and Freight between 124.2 and 125.3.
40 MPH Passenger and Freight between 123.6 and 124.2.
Going west ...
45 MPH Passenger and Freight between 126.2 and 126.7.
50 MPH Passenger between 126.7 and 127.9.
60 MPH Passenger between 127.9 and 130.5.
(The Michigan City siding is 126.1 to 127.2.)

The 2005 timetable has 79 MPH Passenger between 127.9 and 129.7 (still 60 MPH to 130.5). The other limits remained in effect. The same speeds are shown in the 2008 timetable.

CSX doesn't do 50 MPH through Michigan City, even without street running.
The information that I can find shows "the restrictions that CSX has in place" as 25 MPH for the city limits.
CSX Chicago - Grand Rapids - 2008 Pg 39 - Michigan City.jpg
Getting back to NICTD ... if they were to realign their track south and follow the CSX ROW they would build their own track separate from the CSX line and follow their own speed limits. However the southern option was discarded a few years ago (along with a northern option past the power plant and Amtrak station to the former NS line).

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