Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

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LakeATCS
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Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... nal-system

In accordance with part 235 of Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) and 49 U.S.C. 20502(a), this document provides the public notice that by a document dated May 24, 2016, Watco Companies LLC, petitioned the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) seeking approval for the discontinuance or modification of a signal system. FRA assigned the petition Docket Number FRA-2016-0058.

Applicant: WATCO Transportations Services LLC, Anthony Cox, VP of Engineering, 315 East 3rd Street, Pittsburg, KS 66762.Show citation box

Watco is the owner-operator of the Grand Elk Railroad (GDLK) on track that is currently leased from Norfolk Southern Railway (NS), and seeks approval of the discontinuance of the traffic control system (TCS) from Milepost (MP) 33.00 at Park, in Grand Rapids, MI, to MP 1.4 at the end of GDLK in Elkhart, IN.

The reason given for the proposed discontinuance is that traffic volumes do not warrant a TCS.

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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

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People who like employee timetables and/or signalling should check out the filing ...
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0058-0001

65MB and 275 pages of detailed information on the line.

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Doktor No
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by Doktor No »

Other then CP Park isn't in Grand Rapids.....probably throw the whole thing out on that line alone. Try again WATCO.
And yeah, I doubt if they really need TCS anymore but it does provide wrong switch and broken rail protection.
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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

Doktor No wrote:Other then CP Park isn't in Grand Rapids.....probably throw the whole thing out on that line alone. Try again WATCO.
And yeah, I doubt if they really need TCS anymore but it does provide wrong switch and broken rail protection.
North of Park is already TWC (except for yard limits and CSX operated tracks).

It is interesting that NS maintains control and ownership from MP 0.0 (CP 421) to MP 1.4. The NS Kalamazoo Branch.

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by Notch 8 »

LakeATCS wrote:
Watco is the owner-operator of the Grand Elk Railroad (GDLK) on track that is currently leased from Norfolk Southern Railway (NS), and seeks approval of the discontinuance of the traffic control system (TCS) from Milepost (MP) 33.00 at Park, in Grand Rapids, MI, to MP 1.4 at the end of GDLK in Elkhart, IN.

The reason given for the proposed discontinuance is that traffic volumes do not warrant a TCS.
CP 33.00 is just north of Three Rivers MI not GR. Sad to see this line go dark. Sign of the times !
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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

The "Park, in Grand Rapids" error is in the Federal Register summary (written by Robert C. Lauby, Associate Administrator for Railroad Safety, Chief Safety Officer. Federal Railroad Administration) not in the actual filing:
Watco Companies LLC leases, maintains and manages the operations of the Grand Elk Railroad LLC (GDLK) on track that is currently owned by the Norfolk Southern RR. This track is located in Michigan and Indiana extending from Grand Rapids, MI to Elkhart IN.
Watco Companies, LLC would, as the owner operator of the GDLK, submits this request for removal of the current Centralized Traffic Control (CTC) system, currently working between mile post (MP) 33.00 at Park to MP 1.4 at the end of GDLK ownership. This letter is sent pursuant to 49 CFR Part 235 in order to request the removal of the train control CTC system in favor of track warrant control (TWC) territory. Train traffic on this section of track is four per day with maximum speed of 40 mph with no increases in train traffic in the foreseeable future.
This change will not affect safety of train movements as there are four passing sidings within the 31.6 miles. If approved, the discontinuance and removal of the CTC system will begin upon approval and be completed within 90 days. The change from CTC to TWC is expected to be permanent. All changes will conform with FRA Rules, Standards and Instructions.
Please contact me with any questions you may have.
Watco describes their line as extending from Grand Rapids to Elkhart, but does not state that Park is in Grand Rapids.

dinwitty
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by dinwitty »

They might want to avoid PTC, which might be why the move, they could still do automatic block signals for protection but works (ed) for the South Shore.

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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

For the amount of traffic Track Warrant Control will work fine and no track signalling will be needed.


There are references in the Grand Elk Timetable No. 2 (filed with the petition) to trains contacting the NS Dispatcher before entering the Kalamazoo Branch from the Michigan Southern Railroad. Does anyone know where the CTC desk is for MP 1.4 to MP 33? Does Grand Elk have a CTC desk?

(The dispatcher contact phone number for Grand Elk is a Ottawa Ontario Canada number. )

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

justalurker66 wrote:For the amount of traffic Track Warrant Control will work fine and no track signalling will be needed.


There are references in the Grand Elk Timetable No. 2 (filed with the petition) to trains contacting the NS Dispatcher before entering the Kalamazoo Branch from the Michigan Southern Railroad. Does anyone know where the CTC desk is for MP 1.4 to MP 33? Does Grand Elk have a CTC desk?

(The dispatcher contact phone number for Grand Elk is a Ottawa Ontario Canada number. )
I believe the Kanakee Dispatcher still has control of the two CTC sidings. The holdouts at 1.4 are controlled by Chicago East thru 421.

Kanakee controls a lot of oddball stuff. Including part of the CF&E in Fort Wayne (or used too)

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by GTW »

Grand Elk has there own diapatcher on 160.355 in Kansas.

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

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Correction on the Freq. its 160.335

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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

LakeATCS wrote:I believe the Kanakee Dispatcher still has control of the two CTC sidings. The holdouts at 1.4 are controlled by Chicago East thru 421.
I assume Grand Elk has to pay for that service (along with maintaining the signals). It sounds like another cost savings.

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by Super Chief »

Not so everything was transferred to Watco dispatch. Everytime the phone tone goes over the radio it has a Watco dispatcher answer. No Kankakee since startup. Will be all cell phone track warrants now. Too bad it was nice getting notice when they were lined up to leave Kalamazoo. Since Three Rivers is the hold out yard it was nice seeing the signals for both directions when trains were approaching. Also when dispatch has a bad behaving switch the crews tell Watco their throwing it by hand.

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by BIG AMISH »

Went along Grand Elk from White Pigeon to Elkhart today and the signals at Vistula and Bristol were off. There was a NS engine on the siding near the Andersons facility and a high rail truck on the main between Vistuala and Bristol.

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by Saturnalia »

BIG AMISH wrote:Went along Grand Elk from White Pigeon to Elkhart today and the signals at Vistula and Bristol were off. There was a NS engine on the siding near the Andersons facility and a high rail truck on the main between Vistuala and Bristol.
The signals are approach-lit IIRC, just like the rest of the Chicago Line.
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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

It is too early for discontinuance. The comment period for the request does not expire until August 1st. After that a decision can be made.

LakeATCS
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Well it looks like the FRA says NOT SO FAST......

DENIED

https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=FRA-2016-0058

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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

I was hoping for a better explanation than "No".

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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by 9xs »

justalurker66 wrote:I was hoping for a better explanation than "No".

My guess is 1. BO tower (Amtrak) and 2. CSX

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justalurker66
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Re: Say goodbye to the CTC on Watco north of Elkhart.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

9xs wrote:
justalurker66 wrote:I was hoping for a better explanation than "No".
My guess is 1. BO tower (Amtrak) and 2. CSX
The track segment in question was MP 1.4 (Elkhart) to MP 33.0 (Park). This change would not have affected either railroad.

Mileposts and Method of Operation
MP 0.0 - NS Chicago Line CP 421
MP 1.4 - END GDLK BEGIN NS
MP 1.4 - MP 33.0 - CTC
MP 33.0 - MP 51.8 - TWC (includes CN crossing at MP 40.8 )
MP 51.8 - MP 57.3 - Yard Limits (includes BO tower at MP 54.6)
MP 57.3 - MP 96.5 - TWC
MP 96.5 - MP 100.6 - Yard Limits
MP 100.6 - END OF MAIN TRACK
MP 100.6 - MP 102.3 - "Other than Main Track"
MP 102.3 - MP 106.0 - CSXT CTC
MP 106.0 - MP 106.9 - "Other than Main Track"
MP 106.9 - END OF TRACK

(Per Grand Elk Timetable #2 as filed as part of their petition.)


There were no comments filed for or against the petition.

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