CP 421 Upgrade

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CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri May 20, 2016 5:29 am

Anybody seen or heard when work was to start on 421? Surveyors were there last year laying out the plan for it but nothing since. Plan was to eliminate the diamond under the signal bridge in front of the depot and tie into Main 1 a bit further west?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby GTW » Fri May 20, 2016 12:03 pm

Super Chief,

You can't have that signal bridge in your back yard!!
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Jhall » Fri May 20, 2016 9:57 pm

Spring 2017

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat May 21, 2016 1:32 am

Jhall wrote:Spring 2017


Yippee! Hopefully the Chicago Line PTC upgrades will be done by then. All seems to have fallen silent with the signal replacements.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby rob46580 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:11 pm

Huge project! Literally everything is changing.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:31 pm

Any details you care to share and when does it start?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby rob46580 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:34 pm

Well, the elimination of the diamond , plus moving all the swiches off the curve, plus connecting coach track to main 3( used to be the siding east of there) will pretty much cover everything being changed.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby GTW » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:52 pm

Not CP 421 but has anyone noticed the new radio tower at CP 412.6 at Martin's over the weekend.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby BIG AMISH » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:27 pm

rob46580 wrote:Well, the elimination of the diamond , plus moving all the swiches off the curve, plus connecting coach track to main 3( used to be the siding east of there) will pretty much cover everything being changed.


I am working on this area for my HO scale layout and making that diamond on a curve track is a little out of my league. I think I will wait for the changes and then model that part.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:47 pm

rob46580 wrote:Well, the elimination of the diamond , plus moving all the swiches off the curve, plus connecting coach track to main 3( used to be the siding east of there) will pretty much cover everything being changed.


Will the connections to North Freight and South Freight be pushed west of Main Street?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby rob46580 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:49 pm

It seems like with the switches all moving off curve the one to Grand Elk will be the farthest east, so most likely yes.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:59 pm

It seems like a waste of space to not have any switches east of Main St. But connecting the coach track to track 3 (former Dunlap controlled siding) helps force the interlocking east instead of track three becoming the two "freight" tracks.

If it were up to me I would put a three track universal crossover starting at Indiana Ave (over the closed McDonald Ave crossing) on the tangent track east of the curve and the rest of the interlocking on the tangent track east of Main St (the ladder for the Kalamazoo Branch, existing crossovers between North and South Freight and anything else needed).

Spring 2017 ... not too much longer to wait to see how it all is worked out.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:57 pm

The plans for 421 were previously posted on this board.

421 moves westward. MASSIVE redo here. MASSIVE FIVE TRACK EB signal bridge at Oakland Ave. Crossovers galore between here and main street using a double ladder setup. At main street you have the power switch to the Kalamazoo. And then a three track WB signal bridge just east of main street. Kalamazoo has a home signal. Kalamazoo will cease to be the straight on movement. Signals to reflect this.

Now when I saw the plan the Holdout signals on the Kalamazoo are being replaced with another holdout signal.
But since then Watco filed for signal removal. So this may have changed. There is certainly no need for a northbound holdout if the CTC north is gone.

Part of this plan was already done, as the E&W switch was converted to hand throw.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:31 pm

LakeATCS wrote:The plans for 421 were previously posted on this board.


You have posted the best summary I have seen, but that is the best we have seen.

LakeATCS wrote:Now when I saw the plan the Holdout signals on the Kalamazoo are being replaced with another holdout signal.
But since then Watco filed for signal removal. So this may have changed. There is certainly no need for a northbound holdout if the CTC north is gone.


Reading the Watco filing, they do not own the first 1.4 miles east of CP 421. That remains in control of NS. The CTC abandonment ends at Watco ownership (MP 1.4) not at CP 421. I can see the westbound holdout remaining useful to prevent trains from entering NS' CTC territory.

LakeATCS wrote:Part of this plan was already done, as the E&W switch was converted to hand throw.


Replaced with a hand throw further east. I suppose it saves some complexity.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:47 pm

Also there will be a third main track between 423,421 that will connect into the new third track 421 to 417.

The westward only automatic just west of the Amtrak station will be going away. No replacements.

Supposedly Amtrak has been practicing using the west end of the station platform.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:24 pm

Something like this? Or more complicated? (Not to scale.)
cp421-160625fantasy.png
cp421-160625fantasy.png (2.82 KiB) Viewed 4688 times


One thought about the loss of the east end of the platform ... that parking has been taken over by the Commission on Aging anyways.
There will need to be a walkway in case an Amtrak has to stop on track 2.
I have not tried to illustrate switch heaters and cabinets.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:07 am

A few to many switches. But basically yes.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby rob46580 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:08 pm

They shpuld have included automatic on the backs of the bridges for departing amtraks, then there would be no dib issues when departing.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:32 pm

rob46580 wrote:They shpuld have included automatic on the backs of the bridges for departing amtraks, then there would be no dib issues when departing.


There is no DIB eastbound as the next signal is an intermediate (419).
The 4221 signal westbound (to be removed) prevents DIB on track 1.

The distance to CP 423 isn't too bad for running DIB .., and with tangent track those signals become visible just west of Oakland. The benefit would be minimal.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:48 pm

Today saw about 20 NS hardhats & vests surveying 421 at the signal bridge in front of the depot. Spent about an hour there then walked west towards 423 and surveyed the inbound freight tracks west of the museum. Asked the forman whats up? Replied just another look at how this is going to be reconfigured. The ultrasound truck was there running up and down main 1 & 2 plus the coach track. Signal naintainers were with track crews at 423.
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