CP 421 Upgrade

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby GP30M4216 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:57 pm

I have a sneaking suspicion the oddball westbound only automatic west of the Amtrak platform is now gone.


You are referring to the signal at MP422 for westbounds on track 1. This is the depot departing signal, its function is/was so that westbound passenger trains aren't delayed in block on departure. It is a distant signal to the next control point west (CP-423) hence the two signal heads. With a clear indication trains can accelerate immediately to track speed. I'm not sure when it was installed but clearly is of NYC vintage and has US&S Type G heads.

Image

I always liked this signal with its offset heads, even if only visible at a distance. I think the Amtrak crews and passengers appreciated it too!
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:18 am

That is a GRS made signal model G.

Offset heads used to mean intermediate signals, but this practice was done away with even before right hand only signals went away,

The signal is on the hit list and WILL NOT be replaced. A replacement was not seen on the new plans.

I have not seen any firm plans what will occur with the Amtrak platform. As much of what is there now is mid OS.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:01 am

LakeATCS wrote:I have a sneaking suspicion the oddball westbound only automatic west of the Amtrak platform is now gone.

I'd expect a bulletin to say that the signal was removed (similar to the ones issued for moving the EB CP signals on North and South Freight).
The old signal isn't in the way of construction so I expect it will live until cutover.
(If it disappears before then I'll post an update.)

GP30M4216 wrote:I always liked this signal with its offset heads, even if only visible at a distance. I think the Amtrak crews and passengers appreciated it too!

The other intermediates in the Elkhart area were also offset. I am not sure how much it would help. The offset of 4221W is wide so it would be easier to see the offset, but with the triangle placement of lamps, some old CP signals can appear to be offset at night.

CP 423 is not too far away, so DIB should not be too big of a problem.

LakeATCS wrote:I have not seen any firm plans what will occur with the Amtrak platform. As much of what is there now is mid OS.

It shouldn't be too long until actual construction will fill in the blanks.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 pm

4221W lives. It was still standing when I went to the station this evening.

Crews were working on the new Track 3 today. All of the old coach track has been pulled up past the new EB signal bridge. I could not see if NS has tied the new Track 3 into the old coach track yet.
cp421-171003a.jpg
CP 421 looking west
cp421-171003b.jpg
New gravel bed north of what will be track 1.
cp421-171003c.jpg
Old signal cabinets in the way of the new Kalamazoo Branch track ... new signal cabinet waiting for current Track 2 to be removed for it to be placed in the ground.


The new CP 421 signs are on the larger signal cabinet by the station (where the antenna was installed last week). They are blacked out.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby GTW » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:59 pm

Don't know if you noticed but a third aspect has been added to the signal for the Kalamazoo Branch.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:23 pm

GTW wrote:Don't know if you noticed but a third aspect has been added to the signal for the Kalamazoo Branch.

The third head? Yes, I posted a picture of in in this thread on Sun Sep 24. It looks like the two headed signal was an error.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Dajudge » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:17 am

I asked a signal maintainer yesterday what the purpose was for the white gravel next to the new track 1. I was told will be an Amtrak platform. But then he said "but don't count on it, the ink is still wet on the drawing". So perhaps it's going to be a temporary platform. It sure is long though. Going to be quite a baggage drag back to the station. It also appears that new crossing gates/signals have been installed at main street already. And something else, it just now occurred to me that the station platform will be dark to all signals. (I catch on quick).
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:01 pm

The new gravel connects to a road that NS extended across track 1 and 2 just west of Benham. It would make a nice construction path for bringing in materials for a platform (regardless of length). Hopefully long enough for more than one car to open up for passengers (no double stops). I'd like to see two sidewalks from the platform to the station .. one to the east lined up with the station and one to the west leading to the Amtrak parking lot. If they do not put in both sidewalks I expect passengers will make their own paths (especially with a long platform). They also need a walkway over to Track 2 in case Track 1 is out of service or blocked.

I have heard various things about the platform length. Keep an eye out for markers and construction.

You are right about the replacement crossing gates. One of the less noticeable parts of the project.

Eastbound Amtraks currently stop in the interlocking (with the next signal being an intermediate so no DIB). I would not call the section of track within an interlocking "dark" as that track is controlled by the entrance signals and shows up on the dispatcher's displays. But westbound trains will need to follow DIB rules since the next WB signal is a CP.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:18 pm

75508800070202

7 switch bits. So Would seem we are getting just the ladders and the kalazoo switch. No reverse crossovers, existing 19 and 21 are being pulled.
Last edited by LakeATCS on Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:33 pm

LakeATCS wrote:75508800070101
Just 3 pops on the BCP side.
421 in testing?

Possibly. I do not monitor BCP locally (I barely got the MCP reception working).
No new MCPs.

LakeATCS wrote:Goshen server seems to be on the fritz btw

I have not received CP 3 since Sept 26th locally. Perhaps not the server (when received I had 24% errors).
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:31 pm

cp421-171004.jpg

Markers like this one line the gravel. (Photo rotated.)
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:35 pm

justalurker66 wrote:
LakeATCS wrote:75508800070101
Just 3 pops on the BCP side.
421 in testing?

Possibly. I do not monitor BCP locally (I barely got the MCP reception working).
No new MCPs.

LakeATCS wrote:Goshen server seems to be on the fritz btw

I have not received CP 3 since Sept 26th locally. Perhaps not the server (when received I had 24% errors).


Well the server is offline, it's not connecting.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:43 pm

You should need DIB rules no matter what type of signal is next - absolute or intermediate. Being worried about a red signal at a CP is just like being aware of delays in block territory where the DS may have made a call-on or something due to delays, or the train switched directions between signals.

At least, that's how it is on CSX.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:15 pm

cp421-171005.jpg


Extending the new Track 1 past Main St. And one of many people who continue to use the Main St crossing despite the lack of a road.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Dajudge » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:11 am

West bound signals at east end of 421.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:09 pm

75508800070202

Seen in test mode yesterday. 7 switch bits. So just the ladders and the kalzoo switch.
No crossovers for 2 to 1 wb or 3 to 2 wb.
Existing crossovers ALL come out.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby rob46580 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:27 pm

So, is this going to be a tear out old signals that are in the way and realign everything and finish and do signal testing all at once this week????
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:38 pm

Next weekend have the motorhome, ribs and beer on the west side of the depot all done by then. Elkhart may not be an Amtrak stop as of today's rumor. So the new ballast could very well be the new main. Ligonier would be added as a stop. OJ was spotted crossing at CP 422 using the shortcut. Thats all I'm saying.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:45 pm

Also the curves at 421 stay 20mph not bumping them to 30. This project changes by the minute.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:01 pm

I don't this can be one of the clear unhook and rehook jobs we have been seeing. This will have to be the more involved do track work with a signal outage jobs.
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