CP 421 Upgrade

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:50 pm

Super Chief wrote:...about 20 NS hardhats & vests surveying...

Let me guess: about 5 working, the rest "supervising"? :lol:
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:36 pm

Hard to determine when there all in a circle who was doing what. I thought the Elkhart transit bus had dropped them off and they were waiting for Amtrak. Wrong.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:26 pm

Starting in February existing main 1 & 2 are gone. Existing coach track is new main 1 and Grand Elk ties into new main 1 100 yards west of the overpass bridge next to the depot. The existing 2 yard tracks next to the museum are main 2 & 3. No more switches or diamond under the signal bridge at depot. Track crews were told to expect lots of overtime to accomplish above. Thats why the 20 hard hats were there the other day and that is the current plan. There is talk also of high level platforms at the depot to facilitate loading and unloading of Amtraks.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:01 am

Super Chief wrote:Starting in February existing main 1 & 2 are gone. Existing coach track is new main 1 and Grand Elk ties into new main 1 100 yards west of the overpass bridge next to the depot. The existing 2 yard tracks next to the museum are main 2 & 3. No more switches or diamond under the signal bridge at depot. Track crews were told to expect lots of overtime to accomplish above. Thats why the 20 hard hats were there the other day and that is the current plan.


That does not contradict the plan previously posted ... but it does surprise me that the curve is being made tighter. The current "North Freight" to "Main 2" east of Main St would become the new Main 2? (A tighter curve for trains than the current Main 2 to Main 2.) Main 1 would shift south (tighter curve) to line up with the Coach Track? That would leave the current path for the Grand Elk intact (with the diamond and turnouts removed) and the tie in to the new Track 1. And the current Track 1 path empty. (And then get everything on the right alignment before Oakland Blvd.)

cp421-160918fantasy.png
cp421-160918fantasy.png (6.48 KiB) Viewed 2226 times


There is talk also of high level platforms at the depot to facilitate loading and unloading of Amtraks.


A high level platform would not help Amtrak. A better platform (level and at the appropriate low level height) would be an improvement. Although with the Grand Elk connection "100 yards west of the overpass bridge" (Benham Ave) passengers would need to cross the Grand Elk to get to Track 1 - and walk much further if an Amtrak had to use Track 2. (There is an asphalt walkway to Track 2 in place for that function - in case the dispatcher can't get Amtrak on Track 1.)

I thought the goal was to lessen the curves at CP 421? Moving the mains south tightens the curves.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:22 pm

After change curves are suppose to be rated at 30mph with no switches or diamond to contend with. On west end once past the bridge alignment goes back to normal to the fuel racks. We shall see.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Saturnalia » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:54 pm

Super Chief wrote:After change curves are suppose to be rated at 30mph with no switches or diamond to contend with. On west end once past the bridge alignment goes back to normal to the fuel racks. We shall see.

Yeah, it seems to me that without turnouts, they could jack up the superelevation through there. That curve isn't *that* tight.

At the end of the day, it doesn't help a whole lot anyway, being at the end of a yard where all trains are stopping anyways - including Amtrak.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:57 pm

Super Chief wrote:After change curves are suppose to be rated at 30mph with no switches or diamond to contend with. On west end once past the bridge alignment goes back to normal to the fuel racks. We shall see.


I do not see how they take the 15 MPH curves connecting North and South Freight to the main lines and make them 30 MPH curves. They need to follow the current Track 1 and Track 2 alignments. Tightening the curve slightly so Track 1 follows Track 2 past the station (until the Grand Elk merges in) might be possible - but expecting to tighten the curve enough to follow the "freight track" alignments and maintaining 30 MPH? (Super elevation can help ... but a slow train on a super elevated track can do a lot of damage. The curve needs to be designed for all speeds of train from 0 MPH to 30 MPH.)

Oakland Avenue is a good place to get back to normal. The five tracks are side by side at that point. West of there is easy ... east isn't difficult but there is a lot of steel to move around at CP 421.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:51 pm

NS signal construction crews have arrived in Elkhart for this project. There's going to be a lot of job bumpin going on. January this project goes full tilt.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:57 am

All components for this upgrade are now in the west end of the yard. Lots of preliminary signal work being carried out now and looks like the weather will be cooperative next week.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:26 am

Work is ongoing at nearby CP 423 ... the vertical part of the new cantilever signals are in place with the new eastbound signals a few feet west of the current cantilever and the new westbound signals a few hundred feet east of the current mast signals. (The signal bases can be seen in the 9/11/16 images available via Google Earth. I noticed the uprights on Sunday.) It looks like work is underway for the new crossover.

The new westbounds for CP 423 are are about 2800 ft (0.54 mi) from Oakland Ave.

I took a look at the field of flags at CP 421 today. It should be an interesting winter.
CP421Flag.jpg
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:13 am

Bulldozers were cleaning up the grounds around 421 Monday probably to get started on this project.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:03 pm

Forget my previous post. The project now is slated for November. NS has a change of priorities now.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justin_gram » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:53 am

Looks like they are closing Main Street in Elkhart for realignments from March 20-31. http://www.abc57.com/story/34848406/rai ... in-elkhart
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:36 am

North and south freight leads were shifted north away from the museum this week. The other 3 tracks get shifted south next. With the timeline having Main St. only closed till March 31 they will be busy next week. The ole signal bridge and water pipes that have stood there over time will probably be removed. Wonder if the depot supplied those pipes to water the cars? They may run into some surprises there.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Schteinkuh » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:12 am

Super Chief wrote:North and south freight leads were shifted north away from the museum this week. The other 3 tracks get shifted south next. With the timeline having Main St. only closed till March 31 they will be busy next week. The ole signal bridge and water pipes that have stood there over time will probably be removed. Wonder if the depot supplied those pipes to water the cars? They may run into some surprises there.

Has the museum worked out a deal for the signal bridge?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:16 pm

They probably haven't thought about it or care? North Judsen likes those things. CP 426 is basically a clone of it also.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Schteinkuh » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:05 pm

Super Chief wrote:They probably haven't thought about it or care? North Judsen likes those things. CP 426 is basically a clone of it also.

I mean, 421 is in much better shape.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:36 pm

Super Chief wrote:Forget my previous post. The project now is slated for November. NS has a change of priorities now.
Super Chief wrote:North and south freight leads were shifted north away from the museum this week. The other 3 tracks get shifted south next.

So much for "November". Perhaps a completion date?

How far were the freight leads shifted? The photo below was taken last weekend ...
CP421-Mar19th16.jpg


The signal bridge is safe until NS replaces them with (at minimum) temporary signals. Perhaps temporary cantilevers like the ones put in at 415 and 414 a couple of years ago during construction of the third track? The Main St signals on track 2 could be removed without too much hassle but I do not see NS losing the EB Track 1 signal without providing a replacement. So I would look for temporary signals being installed before the bridge is removed.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:34 am

You have to really look hard as it was a slight shift. Sounds by the joint news release with the city Main St. Closed till 31 of March and intermittently till November so yeah a completion date maybe. It took Grand Elk 3 crews to get a train out of the yard the other day, 4209 blew a main generator coupled with the track work.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:17 pm

So closer to inches than feet? Here are pictures taken today.
CP421-Mar26th16.jpg
CP421-Mar26th16Wide.jpg

The ballast looks undisturbed at the crossover on the freight tracks (where the furthest west construction marker is in the picture).
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