South Shore interchange with NS at Miller siding

[9xs]

Last night, 4 Southshore engines entered the NS Chicago Line at CP 487 and picked up a coal train stored on the Miller siding. This is not on the South Shore system map and no STB filings for trackage rights can be found for the Southshore on the Chicago Line. Anybody have additional information?

Dave

[Bulby]

It sounds like a move done under "railroad convenience". A rather broad term used to explain a fair number of movements. It can be used to justify moves on "foreign" railroads. Reasons such as lack of space on the receiving railroad to pick up the train on their tracks and get the delivering power off, switches that face the wrong direction for the planned movement, a lack of sidings that can be used for interchange at the point track ownership changes, fouling too many crossings for too long, and others can be used to justify railroad convenience.

[justalurker66]

The recent description of the new CP 487 explicitly notes that there is no signal route from NS to NICTD.
Where did the coal go?

[barnstormer]

Last night, 4 Southshore engines entered the NS Chicago Line at CP 487 and picked up a coal train stored on the Miller siding.
This is not on the South Shore system map and no STB filings for trackage rights can be found for the Southshore on the Chicago Line.
Anybody have additional information?

Dave

I witnessed a (South Shore) manifest train working this connection WB recently while operating my train thru this location. I believe he was
headed to burns harbor with a transfer train. Whoever took the light power & picked up the coal train at Miller would have been able
to take the train east to the power plant at Michigan City, or the Bailey Generating station just north of Arcelor Mittal, via the NICTD,
provided they had qualified crews or pilots for the NS portion of the move.

The recent description of the new CP 487 explicitly notes that there is no signal route from NS to NICTD.
Where did the coal go?

I believe that the reason a signal indication cannot be given there is because the NICTD switch on their #1 track is a manually-operated one,
possibly with an electric-unlock mechanism. A restricting signal may be obtained for entering the interlocking on the NS (for EB moves) to
the connection only after the route is lined for the move onto the NICTD on #1 trk. There is a pot signal (WB) on the connection that would
give access onto the NS from the NICTD, but it might provide a better signal than restricting for that move.


-barny

[justalurker66]

I believe that the reason a signal indication cannot be given there is because the NICTD switch on their #1 track is a manually-operated one, possibly with an electric-unlock mechanism.

NICTD's switch is manual, but is a spring switch for eastbound movements from NS to NICTD. There is no NICTD signal on the connector ... the closest eastbound signal is an intermediate just east of the connector.

A restricting signal may be obtained for entering the interlocking on the NS (for EB moves) to
the connection only after the route is lined for the move onto the NICTD on #1 trk.

Eastbound moves do not need to be lined on NICTD.

There is a pot signal (WB) on the connection that would
give access onto the NS from the NICTD, but it might provide a better signal than restricting for that move.

Correct ... it can give Slow Clear and Slow Approach (or as I like to think of them, "slow until clear interlocking" with the latter adding "approach next signal prepared to stop".

Most of NICTD's movements cross over completely between NICTD and Midwest Steel.

It would be interesting to see a train cross CSX to NS at CP 497 then to NICTD at CP 487 to go to one of the power plants. It would save the reverse move at Miller between CSX and NICTD, but would add another section of rail crews would need to qualify for (or get a pilot). I would want to see CP 487 and NICTD's side improved before using that route regularly.

[barnstormer]

I believe that the reason a signal indication cannot be given there is because the NICTD switch on their #1 track is a manually-operated one, possibly with an electric-unlock mechanism.

NICTD's switch is manual, but is a spring switch for eastbound movements from NS to NICTD. There is no NICTD signal on the connector ... the closest eastbound signal is an intermediate just east of the connector.

If you read my post CAREFULLY, you'll notice I never said there was a NICTD signal for an EASTBOUND move on the connection onto the NICTD! (it would have come only from the NS CP-487 signal) There IS one for a WESTBOUND move ON the connection track to onto the NS. (I know this, because I've run by it for the past 19 yrs.) and have seen the pot signal there, just like the one for eastbound moves onto NS #1 from the steel mill. If you look closely at bing maps, it's close to the old WAS post at CP-487.

-barny

[justalurker66]

If you read my post CAREFULLY, you'll notice I never said there was a NICTD signal for an EASTBOUND move on the connection onto the NICTD!

Where did I say that you claimed there was a signal there? Even the old Conrail layout shows no signal entering NICTD from NS. My gentle correction was on the switch ... which even on the Conrail layout was a Spring Switch that does not need to be aligned for eastbound movements from NS.

(it would have come only from the NS CP-487 signal) There IS one for a WESTBOUND move ON the connection track to onto the NS. (I know this, because I've run by it for the past 19 yrs.) and have seen the pot signal there, just like the one for eastbound moves onto NS #1 from the steel mill. If you look closely at bing maps, it's close to the old WAS post at CP-487.

That WB signal was acknowledged in my post. I posted a picture of it earlier this year in another thread.