Dunlap Residents Fed Up with Idling Trains.

[Jochs]

Residents of Dunlap, which is between Elkhart and Goshen, are fed up with NS tying up crossings for sometimes hours at a time while trains are waiting to get into Elkhart Yard.

http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Dunl ... 92001.html

With the economy improving, there are more trains going in and out of the yard, and there isn't always a place for the trains to go, so they sit on the Dunlap siding, sometimes for two hours before moving.
Usually they cut the crossing, but that is not always the case.

[justalurker66]

The Elkhart Truth had a similar story last week ... local residents are frustrated enough that they are pushing to get their story out.

Pedestrians cutting through trains is a major problem. The train can move at any time ... but people don't think. The trespasser may also find another train on the next track that is moving or arrives before they can get clear. I have not seen anyone cut through a train on foot, but the article says it happens.

I have seen where a stopped train does not clear the island circuit at Sunnyside ... the train is past the crossing but the gates remain down. Most people go to the nearby CR 13 crossing but I've seen a few that tempt fate by going around the gates. Fortunately the one driver I saw lose his bet lost to a county police officer ... but that gate had been down with no train crossing for more than an hour. There has to be some way to either block the crossing or clear the crossing. (Quad gates would be the best solution if the trains can't clear the island circuit.)

The Dunlap issue has multiple crossing blocked ... so the idea of going a half mile down to the next crossing does not guarantee that crossing will not also be blocked. NS has done well in the city of Elkhart ... I have never seen a train stopped north of Hively where trains hold out at 419. The city crossings (Hively, Lusher, McDonald, Main) are clear unless a train is moving. But the Dunlap crossings (Sunnyside, CR13, CR15) can all be blocked at the same time. (The Goshen crossings do not seem to have a problem.)

Elkhart is planning an underpass or overpass to replace the CR 13 crossing (connecting nearby CR 20 to CR 45) which will help in a few years. The new CP 417 (under construction between Sunnyside and CR 13) and third track to CP 412 should help as NS would hold trains south of CP 417 instead of across both Sunnyside and CR13. Hopefully we can make it to the end of the year without anyone getting killed.

[Jochs]

WSBT reports that the sheriff's department is now handing out $500 tickets to trains that block an intersection for too long.
https://www.facebook.com/WSBTNews
(A filter on Taco Bell wifi doesn't allow me to look at wsbt.com)

[Bulby]

I'd like to see how well this holds up in court.

[Firemedic Mike]

Too bad that not a single person in Dunlap seems to know that the train tracks were there long before Dunlap grew up into what it is today. Apparently everyone who is getting stuck for hours on end is not bright enough to realize that you can just go around the stopped trains. Unless things have changed in the last few days, there is an overpass at CR 17. While it may add more miles and more time to a trip, it allows people to bypass the stopped train issue.
I am sure the NS legal department will be getting involved in the ticket issue. I doubt NS will wind up paying the tickets

On a side note, who is liable when one of the ECSD deputies is injured, or worse, killed, trying to ticket a train? If they have to cross the tracks to get to the cab to ticket the crew, there is a possibility of them being hit by a train while crossing, plus the other hazards along the tracks (slippery rails, loose ballast, moving switches, etc) well known to those who work on the railroad, but probably not so much to those outside the rail industry.

[Hogger1225]

Hmmm, didn't know you could ticket a train crew. The ticket has to go to the railroad. Ticket a train crew or worse yet, illegally remove them from the train and I'll bet for sure that the train doesn't move for a long time.

[justalurker66]

From the Sheriff Department Press release:

Beginning at 1:32pm yesterday, the Sheriff’s Department received a complaint from a citizen that the railroad crossing at US 33 and Sunnyside was blocked. At approximately 1:37pm, Norfolk Southern reported that the train was stopped as the “train crew ran out of time”. It was reported that it would take at least 2-3 hours for a new crew to arrive and clear the crossing. At 2:00pm, Sheriff’s Deputies were on-scene and began taking enforcement actions against the railroad company. This resulted in eighteen citations for blocking the crossing, which was calculated per statute for every ten minutes that the train blocked the crossing. At approximately 5:05pm, a new crew arrived and cleared the crossing.

According to Indiana statute 8-6-7.5-1, “It shall be unlawful for a railroad corporation to permit any train, railroad car or engine to obstruct public travel at a railroad-highway grade crossing for a period in excess of (10) minutes, except where such train, railroad car or engine cannot be moved by reason of circumstances over which the railroad corporation has no control.”

According to Indiana statute 8-6-7.5-3, “A railroad corporation, conductor, or engineer who violates this chapter commits a Class C infraction. However, no conductor or engineer acting under the rules or orders of the railroad corporation or its supervisory personnel may be prosecuted for such a violation.

As the decision to stop the train was taken under the rules and orders of the railroad corporation, the citations will be delivered to Norfolk Southern Railroad’s local office in Elkhart. The penalty for violating this statute is a Class C infraction, which finable up to $500.00 for each violation.

I suppose the defense will be that NS could not legally move the train after the crew died, and the federal regulations that kill a crew are not under NS's control. In any case, the whole mess plays out without involving the crew directly.

[Jochs]

I suppose the defense will be that NS could not legally move the train after the crew died, and the federal regulations that kill a crew are not under NS's control. In any case, the whole mess plays out without involving the crew directly.

Exactly! However, it seems like Dunlap residents ARE blaming the train crews.

Yesterday a train was issued 18 $500 tickets, 1 for every 10 minutes the train blocked the crossing.
http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/elkhart- ... s/28364838

[Ypsi]

Is there a rule or regulation against giving so many tickets in such a short amount of time? Every 10 minutes is very extreme if you ask me (I think 0 tickets would be most appropriate of course but I'm not a county looking for a quick way to raise a few bucks). If you treat it like a ticket it would seem most logical to treat it like a parking ticket.. And generally you don't get an additional parking ticket every 10 minutes. (Think 1-2 hour public lot where they mark your tires) I know they are cutting off roads and such, but if there's nothing you can do there's nothing you can do..

[Bulby]

You can always do something, in this case, close all the crossings. I like that idea.

[CSX_CO]

You can always do something, in this case, close all the crossings. I like that idea.

Good luck with that. That will wind you up in court.

Practice Safe CSX

[Bulby]

I'm joking; hence the " " I'm not actually plotting to close every grade crossing. That's the legal dept's plot.

[justalurker66]

Exactly! However, it seems like Dunlap residents ARE blaming the train crews.

They are blaming the railroad for their management of the system. The residents believe NS can find a better place to park their trains than across one of the few crossings available. Go three miles south to cross the bridge and come back really isn't a good answer - especially for pedestrians. (The only time I've seen pedestrians on that CR 17 bridge were railfans taking pictures of NKP 765.)

Perhaps a pedestrian bridge can be built over the tracks ... but I suppose NS would be against that due to the fear of vandalism. Nearby Goshen College got a tunnel under the Marion Branch after many years of negotiations and complaints.

I believe most residents understand that trains are run by the railroad not the crew. The only time I see them blaming the crew would be if it were a situation where a few feet of movement would clear a crossing.

You can always do something, in this case, close all the crossings. I like that idea.

They could close the railroad.

As noted, NS is doing something ... the third track to Goshen will help provide a smoother entrance for trains into town and the project in Ohio will mean more trains running past Elkhart instead of lining up for entrance to the yard. The city is also looking at an overpass or underpass near CR 13 (one crossing south of where the train was ticketed).

It will get better ... NS and Dunlap just need to get past this really bad summer for train congestion.

[Saturnalia]

Pedestrian bridges at each street that crosses now, and then another under/overpass or two. The people who want it should pay for it. Otherwise, the RR was there first and can do what it wants. My $0.02...

[CSX_CO]

It will get better ... NS and Dunlap just need to get past this really bad summer for train congestion.

But with that, winter is right around the corner again....

Practice Safe CSX

[justalurker66]

Otherwise, the RR was there first and can do what it wants. My $0.02...

I'm glad the railroad does not have that attitude. Otherwise they would never get the cooperation of the community for anything they want.

BTW: The Elkhart area was settled in the late 1820s early 1830s. The railroad didn't make it to town until 1851. The first roads were not rails.

[Saturnalia]

Otherwise, the RR was there first and can do what it wants. My $0.02...

I'm glad the railroad does not have that attitude. Otherwise they would never get the cooperation of the community for anything they want.

BTW: The Elkhart area was settled in the late 1820s early 1830s. The railroad didn't make it to town until 1851. The first roads were not rails.

Yeah...they CAN do what they want, but they are nice and they do try to accommodate the neighbors. But they're still a business so sometimes they have to be a little "annoying". Heck, they're open to helping the towns eliminate crossings and build bridges, but since they're a business, they demand that the city pay at least part. Right now the city doesn't really wanna take out all those crossings and put in bridges based on the issues, so the railroad does what it needs to do. At some point, the RR probably probably figures, if the townspeople get upset enough, they'll build up enough anger and will to solve the problem and fork over the money to fix the issue.

Sure Elkhart might pre-date the RR...but I doubt any true settlement around Dunlap requiring as much traffic as today was there. The town grew up around the tracks...the RR was there before most all of it

[CSX_CO]

Yeah...they CAN do what they want, but they are nice and they do try to accommodate the neighbors. But they're still a business so sometimes they have to be a little "annoying".

If people would take their railfan blinders off to this story, and the point that is trying to be made. NS has gone beyond 'annoying' and into full fledged 'nuisance'. Yeah, getting stopped by a slow moving train happens. Having trains stop on crossings happens. But when it is for hours at a time, and repeatedly on a daily basis, it is no longer annoying. Since NS won't listen to the towns, and try to work with them, then the only recourse for the towns is to write citations and take it to the court of public opinion.

Heck, they're open to helping the towns eliminate crossings and build bridges, but since they're a business, they demand that the city pay at least part. Right now the city doesn't really wanna take out all those crossings and put in bridges based on the issues, so the railroad does what it needs to do. At some point, the RR probably probably figures, if the townspeople get upset enough, they'll build up enough anger and will to solve the problem and fork over the money to fix the issue.

Have you ever been to the section of track in question? Based upon your solution I doubt it. Despite how easy you think your solution is, you need to take a good look at the tracks and the relationship to the roads through there. US 33 is RIGHT next to the tracks between Elkhart and Goshen, and Dunlap is smack dab between the two towns. Furthermore, East and North of the tracks is the Elkhart River. People are 'hemmed' in there by the tracks, and then the river. Overpasses and Underpasses would be nearly impossible without millions being spent to re-engineer everything around there to make them a possibility. You know something that doesn't cost millions? Parking the trains places they'll fit, and communicating to train crews what kind of delays they'll anticipate. Maybe NS's autorouter is incapable of doing that, but a good ole human being working with the yard can usually communicate to crews where they should hold back at to stay off crossings.

I have to wonder if CSX was getting the same 'bad press', if there would be so many railfans coming to their defense? Or is it the fact they run pretty painted engines and tea kettles that give them a free pass? If nothing else, at least it is bringing to light how jacked up the NS is, and has been over the course of this summer. Something railfans didn't want to hear about it. If anything, it appears the NS's attitude towards their customers, is spilling over how they handle their public policy. "Our congestion is caused by you, you deal with it." (Which is reportedly what NS told the shippers at the NE Region Shippers conference in the last few weeks. It wasn't NS's fault they couldn't move trains, it was the customer's fault for ordering too many cars...)

Sure Elkhart might pre-date the RR...but I doubt any true settlement around Dunlap requiring as much traffic as today was there. The town grew up around the tracks...the RR was there before most all of it

And with the population growth, so has traffic grown. Usually they go hand in hand. I'm going to guess the historical precursor to US 33 was the old Indian paths between Fort Wayne and South Bend. In the east, the major US Highways usually pre-date the railroads. Further west you go, the less that holds true, but usually the wagon roads pre-date the coming of the railroads. So, do we really want to get into an argument of 'who was there first'?

Practice Safe CSX

[Y@]

Russ wins.

[justalurker66]

The problem has become a safety issue for the railroad. If safety is really job one for the railroad they will work to make their line as safe as possible.

Zero deaths. Zero injuries. Zero trains delayed due to police activity surrounding trespassers.