CP Trackage Rights on NS
CP Trackage Rights on NS
The latest issue of Trains has an article from Fred F. about the past winter woes. Part of the article points fingers at CP and mentions that private railroads were " punishing" CP including NS re trackage rights between Detroit and Chicago. Does anyone know the details behind this? I do know that a friend of mine and myself both noticed the absence of CP trains the few times we've been down to Waterloo this year. Could be the CP trains are being pulled by NS power?
- Saturnalia
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
"Re trackage rights"? What do you mean?
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Re = regardingMQT3001 wrote:"Re trackage rights"? What do you mean?
Means traffic is up to about 2008 levels and no one wants to have to play host to another railroads trains when there is so much congestion.
Practice Safe CSX
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
CSX has had more trouble than usual getting their trains over CN between Flint and Port Huron. When CN is busy they say F@#$ CSX, let them sit.CSX_CO wrote:Re = regardingMQT3001 wrote:"Re trackage rights"? What do you mean?
Means traffic is up to about 2008 levels and no one wants to have to play host to another railroads trains when there is so much congestion.
Practice Safe CSX
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Fred W. Frailey
Winter 2013-'14 was an unmitigated disaster. Aren't there better ways for railroads to sustain a bad season?
This is the article I am referring to.
Winter 2013-'14 was an unmitigated disaster. Aren't there better ways for railroads to sustain a bad season?
This is the article I am referring to.
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Getting the screws put to them by the NS is probably no where near as bad as how the traffic CP ran from southern Indiana to Chicago took it in the teeth on a daily basis. It would take 3 or 4 crews just to get between Terre Haute and Chicago most of the time. Get screws put to them on the IHB from Bensenville to the UP Connection at Dolton. Get the screws put to them by the UP as being a also-also ran, CSX was the 'also ran' and took nearly as bad a pounding by the UP. Once they got off the UP, they were still at the mercy of the CSX between Woodland Jct and Terre Haute. Wash, rinse, repeat on the northbound trip. If any one of those railroads weren't ready for the train, it would sit...and sit...and sit. I'm surprised CP stuck with their southern Indiana MILW operations as long as they did.
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Practice Safe CSX
- Saturnalia
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
I know a certain piece of railroad adjacent CP's route that isn't congested...CSX_CO wrote: Means traffic is up to about 2008 levels and no one wants to have to play host to another railroads trains when there is so much congestion.
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
And the previous route that CP has on the old Plymouth Sub is never congested.
- Saturnalia
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
That is the route I was alluding tojrgerber wrote:And the previous route that CP has on the old Plymouth Sub is never congested.
Of course I'll get hounded for bringing it up, but really the Michigan lines of CSX are only congested when they make them...
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Cool time for our quarterly "why won't cp buy the PM." See previous threads for why they won't do it.MQT3001 wrote:That is the route I was alluding tojrgerber wrote:And the previous route that CP has on the old Plymouth Sub is never congested.
Of course I'll get hounded for bringing it up, but really the Michigan lines of CSX are only congested when they make them...
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Plus after CP left who's to say CSX even wants the trains back?
Practice Safe Csx
Practice Safe Csx
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
That deserves a +1 for sure.CSX_CO wrote:Cool time for our quarterly "why won't cp buy the PM." See previous threads for why they won't do it.
"I shot the freight train / But I did not shoot the fantrip"
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Stop bringing up CP and the PM. It isn't happening, it will never happen, the PM is nothing more than a back route with little to no potential for a major increase in traffic.
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
I replied saying the same thing before I read the rest of the thread. Go me.CSX_CO wrote: Cool time for our quarterly "why won't cp buy the PM." See previous threads for why they won't do it.
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
The PM still gets dumped off at the biggest bottle neck on the Chicago line, so what would it gain them anyway?
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Get off the Chicago Line and out of NS's way as much as possible?MagnumForce wrote:The PM still gets dumped off at the biggest bottle neck on the Chicago line, so what would it gain them anyway?
Gotta give the railroads some credit though. Instead of pissing at the gov't for more funding (while lobbying for higher weight limits and no increase in tolls and/or gas taxes) like truckers do, the railroads use their own assets and money to solve their problems. They'll expand capacity, re-route traffic, and even change lines altogether if it helps them run well enough. Can't say the same to any other mode of mechanized transportation on the planet.
CP, NS and the rest will most likely solve their own problems. In the current railroad (de-regulated) climate, there is an incentive and drive to do so.
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Good lord. How many times does this have to be beaten into the ground? They're still reliant on using the NS over the busiest portion of the corridor if you're using NS or PM, and nevermind the often mentioned physical characteristics that make the PM a terrible through route. It should speak volumes that as soon as the CP was contractually able to get off the PM for another route, they did. You're the one who says there are 150 trains at Porter right now. Taking a 'left' onto the PM doesn't solve anything with reducing the train counts, nor congestion, nor delays.MQT3001 wrote:Get off the Chicago Line and out of NS's way as much as possible?MagnumForce wrote:The PM still gets dumped off at the biggest bottle neck on the Chicago line, so what would it gain them anyway?
Um, what do you call the $70 million NS received from the Government just last week to upgrade THEIR corridor between Porter and the IL/IN Stateline then? Pretty sure there was plenty of 'pissing' at the Government saying "Gosh we just can't handle ALL those AMTRAK trains with our current physical plant. Gee if we could only get some help...." That was ALL Government money. Sure, NS is probably contributing some, but for everything NS is going to gain $70 million could have been covered in house for those improvements and been done by now.MQT3001 wrote: Gotta give the railroads some credit though. Instead of pissing at the gov't for more funding (while lobbying for higher weight limits and no increase in tolls and/or gas taxes) like truckers do, the railroads use their own assets and money to solve their problems. They'll expand capacity, re-route traffic, and even change lines altogether if it helps them run well enough. Can't say the same to any other mode of mechanized transportation on the planet.
CP, NS and the rest will most likely solve their own problems. In the current railroad (de-regulated) climate, there is an incentive and drive to do so.
Practice Safe CSX
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
CSX_CO wrote:Good lord. How many times does this have to be beaten into the ground?
At least once a month.
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Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
Well if you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
I wasn't debating the points for or against, though you make me out to be a fanatic idiot, as usual.
I wasn't debating the points for or against, though you make me out to be a fanatic idiot, as usual.
Re: CP Trackage Rights on NS
One would think that after all the times this has come up, to the same conclusion, railfans would get it through their thick skulls that its not going to happen. If you want people with insight, and knowledge, to let you all live in a fantasy 'paper railroad world', then keep it in the 'paper railroads'.MQT3001 wrote:Well if you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
Then why bring it up? You're the one who said "I know a certain piece of railroad adjacent CP's route that isn't congested..." that started this down this well worn path.
Actually, when it comes to matters of the railroad industry, you pretty much do that yourself. You're dealing with people on this board that have more railroad experience, then you have experience on this planet. We aren't all the idiots YOU think we are, and there is such a thing as 'too smart for your own britches'.MQT3001 wrote: I wasn't debating the points for or against, though you make me out to be a fanatic idiot, as usual.
The point is CP, and this is stated every 4 months when this topic is brought up, has had the opportunity to purchase the PM for probably 30 years now. For at least the last 20 CSX had been actively shopping it to the CP, and they didn't bite. With the regime change at CP, use some common business sense, and think about what kind of operation CP is running. Are they REALLY in the market to purchase a line across Michigan? Look at what they're doing across their system and the moves their making. So, no, they're in retraction. Harrison is trying to 'turn the ship around' (affects of his decisions will remain to be seen), but they are definitely not looking to buy a line. They're not going to want to take on the additional burden of operating their own line, not when they can tailor a trackage rights agreement with another carrier to best suit their business needs. Plus, CSX isn't necessarily shopping lines anymore. They're content to let the business make money for itself. The onus isn't on generating cash fast, like it was 10 to 15 years ago.
Maybe we just need to make a wiki page for the reasoning behind why CP won't buy the PM, and we can just link to that every time this discussion comes up.
Practice Safe CSX