NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

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GP30M4216
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NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

As reported today on indianarailroads.org:

GOOD NEWS!!! I just got the official word today that NYC 3001 will be fully rebuilt!! It will be leaving Elkhart in the very near future. It will be rebuilt at MILW 261 shop in Wisconsin. Once rebuilt it will be operating 12 months out of the year all over the country. 3001 will also be operating 4 times a year through Elkhart on track one. Norfolk Southern has to turn a switch at the museum before they can take it out. Once 3001 is gone another fully operational steam will be brought in for display on the museum grounds. The 261 shop is already makeing parts. Both tenders will be going with it as well. Once in the shop it's only supposed to take about a year to be completed. The museum is wanting to throw a party the day it leaves Elkhart if they can get enough notice a head of time.

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So, I have a couple questions. First of all, I'm really excited this endeavor is coming to fruition! Most every train museum that has a big old steamer has talked longingly about restoring theirs to operation. Few actually have the resources or chance to do so, but somehow the NNYC Museum has come by this chance. I really wonder what their funding source is? What does is mean "they'll be operating 4 times per year in Elkhart on Track 1?" Which "operational" steam engine will be coming to the NNYC Museum to take the place of 3001 when it is gone? I'm glad the second Mohawk tender will be going along with it for restoration. When I worked that the Museum 3 years ago, I completed a detailed write up about the second tender, it's history, and why it is significant, as a response to many visitors' questions. Even then, it was always said that when/if the 3001 becomes operational, that would be used as the extra water tender. I always find the histories of extra water tenders interesting. Like how UP's came from the turbines, or how the 1225's came from a Rock Island steamer.

Also, when I worked there, an idea floating around was that if the 3001 were to be rehabbed, it would be done so in a sort of modern-old school kind of way. Basically creating a new engine with the most modern 21st century steam components, within a L3a Mohawk shell, making it extremely efficient, but not historically accurate. Any ideas if this is actually the case, or if it's going the traditional rehab route of remachining and remanufacturing the historic parts to being it back to operational status?

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Jochs
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by Jochs »

I had heard back in April that it was going to be rebuilt and was going out any day now, and was surprised to see it there all summer. I knew that NS had to do something to a switch before the engine could leave.
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by sd70accsxt700 »

I smell a lot of fishes in that story. Not saying the basic names and members are not correct, but a lot of the little details smells funky.
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j32885
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by j32885 »

Here's my video taken during the fall RRFAN.com Meetup:

New York Central 3001 (Museum Tour), 10-02-2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxwt5Aa_fkw

Enjoy! 8)

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rolloffdvr22
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by rolloffdvr22 »

I would like to know, where is it going to be housed after it has been restored? and What ever happened to the other steam locamotive that was there manny years ago that used to run on the "Pumkin Vine" in Middleburry and Shippshewana? #1977 wasn't it? the Lakeshore Railroad Foundation. I know it got sold to the city of Loagensport, In. but what happend to it since? Maybe could that be returning to replace the 3001?

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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by railohio »

And it'll run in an already-saturated steam excursion market in an anti-steam railroad environment. How many large steam engines can the market absorb? Probably not too many more...
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by TrainWatcher »

Well NS has become more steam tolerant and there should be applause from the Railfan side of it. But, as stated, she's still there, no secret repairs have been happening, NS still hasn't worked on the switch and all that. Also, let us not forget that 3001 is quite a ways in from the fenceline. All that track will need to be inspected as well as if she probably is going to be restored, she won't be moving on her own wheels, but by flatcar just as that FEC 2-8-0 that was here in Michigan a few years back was.

When you actually take a good hard look at her, whoever is gonna be doing the restoration they have their work cut out for them. The Cab is a mess, no guages at all (if there are I would hope they were properly stored), I mean yu had beter know what your doing.

It's all a waiting game and we won't know until we see photos or someone steps forward.

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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

I was in Elkhart last week and spoke with a couple people at the Museum. Apparently they have a routing to get the locomotive from Elkhart to the initial rebuild facility, but are now finalizing the insurance. It sounds like the engine plus two tenders will require two or perhaps three separate moves. The side rods will be coming off the steamer, of course. They're very excited down there and I hope they're able to persevere and sort everything out.

That being said, this article was published in The Elkhart Truth this last week:

Elkhart may derail plan to lease rare locomotive

by: Josh Weinhold
Posted: 12/20/2010 12:00:00 AM

ELKHART -- At least two companies want to pay the city for the right to rehabilitate a one-of-a-kind passenger steam engine it owns.

But Mayor Dick Moore isn't convinced the benefit is worth the cost of losing the rare piece of machinery for 15 years.

"I'm not sure, from the mayor's point of view," he said, "that it's a practical thing to do."

The New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart has the last L3A Mohawk passenger engine left in the world. Several companies are interested in restoring the 287-ton engine and leasing it from the city for 15 years.

The world's only remaining L3A Mohawk passenger steam engine currently sits at the city's New York Central Railroad Museum. At least two companies, Moore said, have offered to lease the engine for $5,000 annually for 15 years.

The companies would then invest about $1 million into the engine to get it up and running, then use it for excursions and other tourist activities. The city would also receive a small portion of each ticket sold on ventures associated with the train.

At the end of the lease, the engine would be returned to Elkhart.

The problem, Moore said, is that the train wouldn't be seen much in Elkhart during that period.

The companies have said the tourist outings could run through Elkhart about 25 percent of the time, but Moore said that would be difficult, given the already crowded nature of the city's rail lines.

And though the train would be working for much of the lease period, there's a good chance more repairs would be needed after 15 years. The cost of further upkeep, he said, would fall directly to the city.

"I'm not sure that's what we need," Moore said, "if we can't run it when it gets back here."

The companies have made overtures to the city, Moore said, but no formal contract language has been presented and no formal negotiations have begun. If presented with an offer, the mayor said he would have his legal department review it, but may not consider leasing out the engine.

Ron Troyer, the museum's director, said there are only two Mohawks left in existence -- but the other, which is held in St. Louis, is a freight engine.

The engines are so rare, Moore said, because most of them were sent to the scrap yard when the NYCRR switched to diesel-powered locomotives.

When the steam passenger engine operated from 1940 to 1956, it passed through or stopped in Elkhart on the NYCRR. It's been a prized possession of the museum since the city acquired it 24 years ago, Troyer said.

"This isn't one that ran strictly on the East Coast, " he said. "This is an Elkhart-drive, Elkhart-maintained engine. That adds a lot more significance to it."

For Moore, the thought of seeing the Mohawk, which has a recorded top speed of more than 100 mph, running again is compelling. But it may not be feasible.

"A lot of people have said 'Yes, Elkhart ought to do that.' I think they're like me -- they'd love to see it run and smoke and toot and do all of that again," Moore said. "But it's questionable."

http://www.etruth.com/know/news/story.aspx?ID=530839



And some comments I have:

I presume the length of the 15 year lease is that's the length of one FRA boiler certification. They return/rebuild the locomotive to operating condition and have the boiler certified, then run it until the next certification is required, at which time they could choose to rebuild it again (no doubt depending on the success and profitability of the venture), or they send it back to Elkhart, likely in much better condition than it currently is.

As for not seeing it around Elkhart, true, it would not be kept here. I've heard offhanded talk mention they would hope to run it through Elkhart 4 times per year, where it would certainly put on a big show/attract quite a following. Regardless, I think it could be a great ambassador for the city and the museum. Most railfans who have an interest in/go to railfan steam excursions know where the locomotives hail from, PM 1225 from Owosso, NKP 765 from Fort Wayne, SP 4449 from Portland, ATSF 3751 from San Bernardino, etc. These groups also work to educate the general non-railfan public about where the locomotive ran and where it is from. People would know that the locomotive came from Elkhart and is the largest NYC steamer remaining, and the only NYC engine actively steaming.

The city/museum benefits from the $5000 lease and the publicity/awareness, fans benefit from having another steam locomotive restored to operating status in excursion service, and the museum benefits by being able to concentrate their own resources on other projects, and getting a steam engine back at the end of the 15 years in much better shape than it's in now. Nevermind everyone living the dream of seeing this beautiful steam engine operate again. All and all, lots of positives, few if any negatives.

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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by TrainWatcher »

Nate, I know what your saying as Ron and many of the volunteers down there are excited about her going to be restored. I just wish this whole project doesn't follow the tone to that of Frisco #1522. The society in charge of her looses money, can't afford to pay the city, gets in a dispute, and NYC 3001 returns even worse than when she left.

I would chase 3001 is back on the rails. But, here is a question. NS is putting money into TVRM for the 4501, 610 and so on. Why didn't they put some money into this project since it really belongs on the Water Level route and is a one of a kind? Unless you can get Amtrak or a Class I such as NS to step up.... gonna be a flop. I mean heck look at C&O #614! No one 20 years ago would have guessed that today she's shut up on some no name shortline, and there are no current plans to run her. Chessie had a lot going with 614 and even Reading T1 2101 with the Safety Specials and what not, as soon as CSX came on board in the 90's, there they went.

Also Amtrak certifications isnt cheap, and when you look at her real good, she's missing an aweful lot and is gonna need a full down to the studs restoration. Gonna be a MAJOR overhaul to anyone who takes on the project. Not to mention the tenders. Wonder really who is heading up this restoration?

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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by Jochs »

Here's a link to a story Channel 22, WSBT in South Bend, IN, did yesterday:

http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-plan-coul ... 6702.story
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by CSX_CO »

$5000 seems like a pretty low ball figure for a yearly lease of something like this. This just smells of someone getting the engine, running the bearings off of it, then shoving it back into the Museum at the end of the 15 years in whatever shape its in when the lease expires. Then again, from what I've heard, steam associations don't make money off running the engine, but off the running of the passenger cars behind it. Unless they plan on booking a full schedule, year round, they are taking on a HUGE financial risk with very little ROI. Then again, it could be someone with money to blow, who wants to see this thing run, and the money's not the object. If the NS suddenly 'turns sour' on the steam excursion stance, then you've got a big investment, with no where to run it.

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rolloffdvr22
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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by rolloffdvr22 »

Knowing the mayor and some city officials like I do, It would be very difficult to get them convenced of this kind of project.

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Re: NYC Mohawk #3001 to be rebuilt!

Unread post by StrayWolf716 »

Front page of the Elkhart Truth yesterday. Looks like only politics could get in the way now.

http://www.etruth.com/Know/News/Story.aspx?ID=532503

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