CP 421 Upgrade

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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread post by justalurker66 »

tttodisp wrote:Can you tell if the 1EAK is shared with the similar block at CP 421? I presume that they are.
Yes ... it is active at roughly the same time as K74 at CP 421.

I do not use AO/BO/CO on my display since I want to see discrete bits for each CP. But looking at the decode provided earlier in the thread, the EAK bits are active at roughly the same time as the WAK bits at CP 423 (and could be programmed as AOK, BOK, COK with DOK being the Kalamazoo Branch).

Also K81 and K83 are still mirroring K78 and K82 respectively (North and South Freight occupancy). Maybe some day they will split. And K101-K106 are tied to the six main TK segments. Everything I have seen since activation has matched the decode I expected.

LakeATCS
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread post by LakeATCS »

423 to 421 should use OK blocks, as well as CP1 to CP421

I use the letters as a last resort. You can use 1OK, 2OK, 3OK etc. But sometimes you have OK blocks on both sides of an OS. So one side would be numbers. Other side letters.

The area around 502 is a Hilarious MESS of OK blocks.

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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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LakeATCS wrote:I use the letters as a last resort. You can use 1OK, 2OK, 3OK etc. But sometimes you have OK blocks on both sides of an OS. So one side would be numbers. Other side letters.
I like the 1OK/2OK/3OK idea. And OK blocks do provide some "smoothing" of the data when the neighboring CP has not updated.

NS was testing at CP 421 again today ... trains appearing and disappearing like magic. Workers have been on site monitoring every switch, signal and train. Although this afternoon it looks like active monitoring ended.

Dajudge
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Update; Looks to the laymen that only details left to do:

1) finish Amtrak platform (cement foundation going in today)
2) remove old track 1 and 2 next to station
3) remove old track one bridge and signal
4) remove 2 frogs left in track 1 around the curve
5) I had heard the two old Amtrak water pipes next to the old signal bridge were to be removed at this time too.
6) install main street crossing which looks like it could happen at any time
7) police the area. Lots of sections of track, signals, and other paraphernalia laying about

Not sure how much NS is responsible for in recovering the 50 foot of new available ground in front of the station.
The new platform looks to be over a 1/4 mile long.

The SM may still be working on computer code and timing but things appear to be running smoothly already It is really different watching a WB train going thru the plant at 30 mph. Might not be so bad for us local railfans.

For my own curiosity does anyone know what angle the super elevation is and if its different for each track? Looks to me to be between 1.5 and 2°.

And will flange oilers be installed?

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Saturnalia
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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There were already flange oilers on at least tracks 1 and 2 west of 421, and at least on track 1 east of 421. I bet there were more, that’s just what I can see on satillite imagery.

The choice of superelevation will be interesting to watch, since superelevation works best when trains move at the design speed. Any less, and you’ll wear your inner rail considerably, and if much higher, the outside will take a beating. For trains running through on the mains it won’t be much of an issue, but if trains are slow into or out of the yard there could be increased west on that inner rail.

That being said, stuffing super under there raises the max track speed at any rate, so it is possible that NS decided that faster overall was better, and with no more turnouts in the curve, replacing the inner rails more often wouldn’t be too much to swallow in exchange.

So I guess from people’s observations, are trains entering and leaving the yard doing so around 30 mph? That’s pretty fast for a spot so close to the yard.
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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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The trains are taking the curve at a decent speed. One we saw Monday may have been pushing the limits of 30 MPH. None of the expert railfans present thought he was going under 30 MPH. It probably was 30 MPH but after decades of slower trains 30 MPH is fast.

I watched one train stop Monday night in the curve because it was not cleared at CP 423 and was too long to fit between CPs. I assume NS civil engineers understand that would happen and have allowed for zero mile per hour trains (and starting in the curve). Otherwise dispatchers may have to hold trains out until they will clear both interlockings at speed. The crew building the curve certainly did not like how slow a train took the curve to the yard when they were out there.

Rumors abound ... the fact that the old signal bridge is present and not in a recycle yard is a positive sign. Those who were there late Sunday have probably heard the word about its destination. And who will own the vacated land and the platform.

As for the platform length, it is my opinion that Amtrak saw that they have a long platform at the station and asked NS for the same length platform to replace the one that is no longer usable. I do not know how often the entire length will be used (next steam excursion?).

The rails are marked for where the Main St crossing will go.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Okay have figured what is going on here. The blurb in the timetable about the new museum switch tipped me off.

NS needed some of the museum property to make this work. Acording to public property records. NS acquired some of the land from the museum on 2017-04-18 for $0. Yeah free.

Parcel Number
20-06-08-207-056.000-012
Alt Parcel Number
06-08-207-056-012

This screams some sort of horse trade. Signal bridge, switch into the museum, perhaps the land in front of the station, for the land needed to put in your new track? Hell maybe the signal bridge stays? Part of a new feature they are putting in?

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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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LakeATCS wrote:Okay have figured what is going on here. The blurb in the timetable about the new museum switch tipped me off.

NS needed some of the museum property to make this work. Acording to public property records. NS acquired some of the land from the museum on 2017-04-18 for $0. Yeah free.

Parcel Number
20-06-08-207-056.000-012
Alt Parcel Number
06-08-207-056-012

This screams some sort of horse trade. Signal bridge, switch into the museum, perhaps the land in front of the station, for the land needed to put in your new track? Hell maybe the signal bridge stays? Part of a new feature they are putting in?
There is a piece of property owned by the city that was used for the new CP (where the North and South Freight were relocated south).
See the map below. The red line is the outline of property owned by PENNSYVANIA LINES LLC.
ElkhartPropertyLines.png
I do not see the property you listed but there are two parcels labeled 06-08-206-007-012 ... so I assume the yellow highlighted one is the one purchased.

The city owns the train station, the land with the "Triangle" parking lot at the underpass, the museum and former roundhouse property and the triangular property at Middlebury and Willard St in the upper right of the attachment.

Fun fact: The square property west of the bridge that is just west of the place where NS property extends north is not owned by NS and has a thin strip that extends along the railroad to 9th St.

The switch into the museum replaces one that was removed (the former requiring a see-saw movement). Another case of replicating the service that was there before the reconstruction (and likely required by the FRA unless the city was willing to abandon the connection). The signal bridge is a good donation to the City but I don't believe that was arranged in April.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Actually no. you have an outdated GIS map.

06-08-206-007-012 was subdivided and the record removed (both parcels with that number)

06-08-207-055-012 was the land the museum (city) kept.
https://elkhartin.elevatemaps.io/prc.ht ... 6c1ce9e362

06-08-207-056-012 was created with just the land NS needed.
https://elkhartin.elevatemaps.io/prc.ht ... 6c1ce9e362

https://elkhartin.elevatemaps.io/#exten ... 63324,2244

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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Odd ... the property I highlighted was also split along a line lining up with the split you highlighted.
Perhaps the property near the station will be deeded over at some future date (once it is cleared).
That would fit one of the rumors.

Track 1 was/is OOS today ... perhaps some work on the curve?

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Saturnalia
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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So is the word that the City will get the land between the new platform and the existing station, potentially along with the old signal bridge?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Saturnalia wrote:So is the word that the City will get the land between the new platform and the existing station, potentially along with the old signal bridge?
It is very possible some kinda of deal was cut. Especially since the city got $0 (free) for the land deeded to NS.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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LakeATCS wrote:
Saturnalia wrote:So is the word that the City will get the land between the new platform and the existing station, potentially along with the old signal bridge?
It is very possible some kinda of deal was cut. Especially since the city got $0 (free) for the land deeded to NS.
I could see it happening. Sure would save the cost of hiring a crane and crew to remove it, and if the city says "just trade us, if we can keep it", then it saves them in land costs. So win-win-win? I guess we will see soon enough.
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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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The last word heard on Sunday was that the signal bridge would stay in place until a way was found to move it to the museum property.
The foreman was looking at how to take down the bridge (goodbye forever) when he found out that it would be moved.
(I believe some of the railfans present would have formed a human chain to prevent the signal bridge from coming down in one thud. :D )

A new owner of the vacated land was also mentioned ... it was not the city, although I did not hear the NS source first hand so I do not want to misquote them. I'd prefer city ownership so the property could be developed as part of the station property and not have an issue between two property owners.

Obviously we are back to waiting for the ink to dry on the plans.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Question, what is the purpose of the new cement pedestal mount about 40 feet east of the new GDLK WB signal? Was something improperly mounted and now needs to be moved?

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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I wish I saw your post earlier. I remember seeing an old base in that general area. It looked like junk.

Inspectors were walking the curve checking the super elevation when I made a brief stop. 19K was stopped at Main St on Track 2 due to some defect.

A couple of quick shots taken today:
The new platform ... nice and deep.
The new platform ... nice and deep.
The old signal bridge.
The old signal bridge.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Yes the home signal for the Elk will be moved to the new base further east. They were running cables for it today.

Jeff Hall

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justalurker66
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

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Jhall wrote:Yes the home signal for the Elk will be moved to the new base further east. They were running cables for it today.
Interesting ... I was remembering the base further back in this photo (not the level one by the branch track).
cp421-171017.jpg
There was some digging in this area back in late September.
cp421-170921.jpg
Here are the cables run under the track:
cp421-170921c.jpg
So ... always part of the plan or a change?

LakeATCS
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread post by LakeATCS »

I guess I should have put this up

Effective 12:01 p.m., Monday, 10-23-17,
Retire the existing Westward 2WD signal located at CP 421 at MP KH 0.2

A new Westward 2WD Home Signal located to the right of the Kalamazoo Branch Track on a High signal mast 45 feet east of the old signal at MP KH 0.2.

All medium aspects and restricting and stop.

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Annndd.

In the timetable Dearborn Division Timetable No.1 effective August 4, 2008 are being made.
REMOVE the 30 mph limit off the SS between CP 415 and CP 421 (that is what it says)
Remove the 20 MPH at 421 on main 1 and 2.

Add the following.
30mph ALL trains (Pax TV and FRT), All tracks MP 421.1 to 421.9. Account curve and CP 421.

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