CP 421 Upgrade

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:57 pm

An eastbound signal bridge support has been installed. (Location shown on the map.)
cp421-170907.jpg
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Saturnalia » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:19 pm

Looks like that'll be a nice shiny bridge for photos...too bad that isn't where the depot is!

Any idea if CP 423 will soon be available on the ATCS aggregator? Just curious if its thought that the new install will have higher antennas or whatever so it might become available?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:28 pm

Saturnalia wrote:Looks like that'll be a nice shiny bridge for photos...too bad that isn't where the depot is!

I hope the city does something nice at the depot. Looking at how much space will be between the old platform and the new reminds me of the grassy area at Hammond. But the city only owns the depot and parking lots. The property between the platform and the museum is owned by NS (listed as "PENNSYVANIA LINES LLC"). So without NS permission we may end up with a fence at the edge of the old platform and a "no mans land" where Amtrak passengers are escorted to the platform for trains (similar to South Bend).

It looks like part of the new interlocking has been built on city property. Perhaps a land swap can be organized and the city can use the land between the tracks and station for parking (or a small park).

Saturnalia wrote:Any idea if CP 423 will soon be available on the ATCS aggregator? Just curious if its thought that the new install will have higher antennas or whatever so it might become available?

The antenna will be much higher (the old one is on the top of the signal cabinet). Hopefully NS will leave the power up high enough to be received.
cp423-170115.jpg
CP 423 (in January - when the leaves were not blocking the view)
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:44 pm

tttodisp wrote:Based on info I have seen, I am expecting some like this for the final arrangement:

CR 421-tttodisp-modified.jpg
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Based on what has been built so far and the location of the eastbound signals I believe your diagram is correct except for the circled crossover. There is not enough space between the two left hand crossovers to put that right hand crossover in and there is not enough space between the western left hand crossover and the signal to put in two crossovers (allowing trains to cross eastbound 1-2-3).

My diagrams have been based on having a fully universal interlocking (all moves possible regardless of which track the train arrives on). Not having a LH crossover between North and South freights prevents a train from connecting between South Freight and Track 1 (or the Kalamazoo Branch). Not having a RH crossover between Track 2 and Track 3 (the circled crossover) prevents a train from going eastbound from Track 1 or 2 to Track 3. The first situation can be remedied by using North Freight. The second situation can be remedied by crossing trains to the coach track at CP 423 (once the new crossover is activated).
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:25 pm

Thanks for the update. My layout was based on a preliminary drawing from a few years ago, so perhaps in the final implementation plan, changes were made (it was shown as "future" anyway).
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:20 pm

justalurker66 wrote:
tttodisp wrote:Based on info I have seen, I am expecting some like this for the final arrangement:

CR 421-tttodisp-modified.jpg



The two crossovers in grey (which were marked in BLUE for future possible add on) were both completely west of the ladders.

But like I said. They were marked BLUE on the last diagram I saw, which meant they were a possible future add on, but not slated for this update.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:07 pm

LakeATCS wrote:The two crossovers in grey (which were marked in BLUE for future possible add on) were both completely west of the ladders.

But like I said. They were marked BLUE on the last diagram I saw, which meant they were a possible future add on, but not slated for this update.

I have not seen the panels for the western crossover (RH 1-2) so that may or may not be installed. I hope that it is installed, otherwise it is another loss of flexibility in routing trains. (EB track 1 to 2 or WB track 2 to 1 would need to be done at CP 423 or CP 417.)

The more I look at what has been completed the more I think that neither RH crossover will be installed. One of those "wait and see" situations.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:19 pm

Today's question:
Why is there a signal base next to the new cabinet? (The cabinet is labeled MP.CD-421.44)
cp421-170909.jpg
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Antenna base?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:58 pm

LakeATCS wrote:Antenna base?

That would be a good answer. The current antenna is located east of the interlocking at a building on the north side of Middlebury street.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:09 am

I walked the platform this weekend and noted that the crossovers between the new tracks are not parallel, they are offset to the point that it appears that there is just enough room for a future RH crossover in the middle of the plant. I have marked the four installed crossovers and three other switches (Kzoo Branch switch yet to be delivered). Will these be skipped in ATCS (program the machine for nine switches) or will the programming reflect the interlocking as built instead of as designed for the future?
cp421-170910.png
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It appears that all signals will need their own bits (although theoretically a westbound from the Kalamazoo Branch cannot enter at the same time as a westbound from Track 1). There will also need to be seven TK bits. (Although I would not be surprised to see more than seven in the layout.)

The current ATCS bits show occupancy for the E&W. I hope the current level of detail continues for signals and occupancy on the branch (separate bits for occupancy between CP 95 and MP 97 on GDLK, westbound occupancy east of MP 97, a third bit that is active when the GDLK is set for westbound traffic or is occupied between CP 95 and MP 97 and bits for the CP 95 signals).

I expect this week will reveal more details as work continues.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Dajudge » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:44 am

As a local railfan I would hope the city and museum would work together and make this new found "park" area a rail park with viewing platform and lower fencing. Could be something like Rochelle some day. Need to involve an architectural site plan drawing. Who knows, if the park might including more auto parking one could even include an overhead bridge for railfans and tourist to get to the museum. And what a photo op that platform could be. There are a lot of opportunities for this new land between the station and the new track one or Kzoo branch. Call it "New York Central Park". Could have grass for the kido's and swing sets and picnic tables. A real destination.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:37 pm

The new westbound signal. (Signal cabinet labeled MP.CD-421.10.)
cp421-170912a.jpg
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:29 pm

justalurker66 wrote:The new westbound signal. (Signal cabinet labeled MP.CD-421.10.)
cp421-170912a.jpg
cp421-170912b.jpg


Well now. That is much much farther east then the original plan had that. The original plan had the WAS signal bridge just WEST of Main street.

Leaves plenty of room.

Might they leave in some of the existing crossovers? Instead of messing around with building new? Old 19 and 21 crossovers would be rather useful.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:47 pm

I agree that it is farther east than the original plan showed, but i suspect that they must have realized that if the new signal was west of the overhead bridge, the crew wouldn't be able to see the aspects until they were right on top of it.

I think if you look closer at the photo of the signal bridge, you will see three masts.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:53 pm

Keeping the 19 and 21 crossovers won't affect any new realignment. Might as well keep them since those two are medium speed switches.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:43 pm

There are straight rails and new ties staged in the grass next to the bridge. I don't see the crossovers surviving. (It will be an interesting layout with all of the crossovers in the western half of the interlocking and the eastern half being the curves with no crossovers.)

I would not be mad if NS left the RH crossover on the curve in place ... it is used by nearly every eastbound Amtrak train after stopping at the station to cross over to Track 2 to continue east. Without that crossover trains will need to stay on Track 1 until at least CP 417. Crossing where they do today the train is already moving slow. Crossing at CP 417 or CP 412 means that the train will need to slow down again. Losing that crossover reduces operational flexibility.

East of the overpass is the right place for that westbound signal. It can be seen from the tangent track. (And yes, it is hard to see the track 3 signal in my photo. I missed seeing it at first.) The intermediates at 414 got a second location because of the CR 17 bridge potentially blocking signals.

Track crews were working on the west end of the new track 1 today. There is still a chance that the western RH crossover will be put in, but I could not see one staged. Then again, the Kalamazoo Branch switch has not yet been set out at the site (unless I missed it).

I am also looking forward to seeing where they put the Kalamazoo Branch signal. I expect it will be near the current WB signal but nothing is done until it is done.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:41 pm

The new Kalamazoo Branch connection. "LOC3" must go!
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:14 pm

The coach track is out of service (forever!). The switch has been removed from Track 2 under the signal bridge. This will allow NS to realign the coach track as Track 3 in the new interlocking.
cp421-170919a.jpg
CP 421 - Coach Track disconnected
cp421-170919b.jpg
CP 421 - No western crossover
cp421-170919c.jpg
CP 421 - Looking west
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Dajudge » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:00 pm

As of today the 5 target EB signal bridge is up No targets on it
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At the west end of the museum track. Note north support is right in middle of old track 3 coach track.
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