CP 421 Upgrade

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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:32 am

If NS had their way I think Main St. would be permanently closed. With all the new overpasses to the east and underpass to the west why not? Don't see that much auto traffic thru there now. Just a thought. Yeah there wouldn't be a heads up on westbounds if the crossing protection was removed but traffic and train horns would be eliminated. Another parking lot for trains might be created even though the power wouldn't be sitting just west of the station like now. Wouldn't be surprised if there discussing it.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:10 pm

NS probably would not mind closing all crossings ... but they have closed a few over the past few years.
Willard St closed, Prairie St became an overpass, McDonald St closed, Indiana Ave became an underpass, Ren St closed, Lusher got quad gates, Hively got Quad gates. To the west the next grade crossing is at the county line (thanks to three old underpasses).

I do not believe the city is ready to give up Main St.

The problem I am seeing is with pedestrian traffic. Pedestrians still cross (illegally) at Willard St and Prairie St at ground level. Main St gives people a place to cross legally without backtracking to Prairie and Main or using the Benham underpass.

Goshen is closing crossings as well with crossings at 5th St and 9th St lost in the last couple of years (with no new overpasses/underpasses).
Yes, closing all crossings would be good for NS. But not for the communities.

As far as train parking lots go ... very rarely do those extend into a CP. The best thing to happen to Dunlap was CP 417. NS avoids stopping trains in that interlocking. Sunnyside and CR13 are now clear most of the day (a long train at Hively will block Sunnyside, but not very often). Closing Main St would not create a parking lot since Main St will remain within CP 421. (With the obvious exception of an Amtrak making a station stop within the interlocking - as they do now.)
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:08 pm

If you noticed a lull in the action the other day in and around Elkhart the metal scrap place west of the depot/bridge decided to do some spring house cleaning urban renewal. They got a little overzealous in their digging and took out NS underground signal circuits between depot and Oakland. Their wasn't a train movement for 20 hours. Now lets see maybe thats why the tracks are being moved over. April Fools but no foolin they were dark that long.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:40 pm

ATCS has been spotty from CP 412 and CP 3 ... but there has been no major lull in traffic.

Perhaps you should have saved your "the freight tracks have been shifted away from the museum" claim for today? Based on your post last weekend I expected to see the tracks moved over several feet - not inches (if at all). Changing out the rail disrupted the interlocking - but no major shifts.

My favorite catch in the last week was seeing a westbound train cleared to cross over 1-3 at CP 412 then 3-1 at CP 417 to get around two stopped trains on tracks 1 and 2 between those two interlockings. As I post this there is a westbound coming off the Marion Branch 3-2 at CP 412 that will go 2-3 at CP 417 to run around a stopped train on 3. (That train is cleared to North Freight entering CP 421 on track 3.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Something is going on with the yard leads, the switches are out of corepsondance, with blue OOS up.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Super Chief » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:25 pm

According to my sources 368 put some cars on the ground on the south freight lead just down from the depot. Im in Florida so can't verify. Now I'm told the north freight lead. Have tracks been moved more than inches? Video shows 2 cars being dragged west about a 100 yards. Trains are backed up to Millersburg.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby Schteinkuh » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:19 am

Super Chief wrote:According to my sources 368 put some cars on the ground on the south freight lead just down from the depot. Im in Florida so can't verify. Now I'm told the north freight lead. Have tracks been moved more than inches? Video shows 2 cars being dragged west about a 100 yards. Trains are backed up to Millersburg.

Yeah, he dragged em for a little bit. Luckily everything stayed upright.
I went to Taco Bell and tried to spend a $2 bill, and the cashier had no idea what it was and called the cops.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:57 pm

I saw a photo recently of the new signal bridges mounted for CP 426 (at least westbound). Are any others up in the area?
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:21 am

tttodisp wrote:I saw a photo recently of the new signal bridges mounted for CP 426 (at least westbound). Are any others up in the area?


Replacements are pretty much up everywhere except for 421 and the already redone 419 to 412 segment.

NS has the contractors putting up the structures out a year to a year and a half ahead of the cut over crews.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:06 am

Thanks. I presume no one has picked up on any potential dates for 2017 signal work? There shouldn't be an weather-related concerns at this point.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby LakeATCS » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:10 pm

RIght now the Dearborne cutover crew seems to be working over in Ohio on the Chicago Line. Been several cutovers there in the mid 200 milepost range.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:37 pm

LakeATCS wrote:Replacements are pretty much up everywhere except for 421 and the already redone 419 to 412 segment.

NS has the contractors putting up the structures out a year to a year and a half ahead of the cut over crews.

Intermediates at 410 and 407 and Marion Branch CP 3 were also done as part of the 419 to 412 segment.

I believe the contractor has all the replacements in place, only skipping locations that will have their signals replaced for other reasons. Intermediates at 453 were not touched as there will be a CP placed there. CP 423 will be getting an additional crossover, and of course the big project at CP 421 is still to come.

There are some small signs of work beginning at CP 421 ... but nothing earth shattering.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:49 pm

From what I understand about CP 421 changes with the crossovers moving to the west of their current location, this will require some tricky staging (probably in several phases) to be able to build the new stuff while still allowing movement in and out of the east end of the yard during construction.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:53 pm

tttodisp wrote:From what I understand about CP 421 changes with the crossovers moving to the west of their current location, this will require some tricky staging (probably in several phases) to be able to build the new stuff while still allowing movement in and out of the east end of the yard during construction.

This certainly is more complicated than the other recent upgrades along the Chicago Line in Indiana. The most complicated involved adding a couple of crossovers and replacing the signals. Everything could be put in place until a one day cut over for each CP. Any turnouts or crossovers that needed removal could be done the same day in most cases. No description of the plan for CP 421 would be that simple.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:40 pm

I am speculating that they will have to create temporary east end yard entry trackage to allow for reconstruction of the new trackage. It will be interesting to see how they do it.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:07 am

tttodisp wrote:I am speculating that they will have to create temporary east end yard entry trackage to allow for reconstruction of the new trackage. It will be interesting to see how they do it.

I am expecting a temporary signal for at least Track 1 EB and the removal of the two "Main St" signals (EB next to Track 2, WB on the bridge) to be the first changes to the current working of CP 421. It sounds like most of the new plant will be west of the current limits of CP 421. Perhaps far enough west that the five tracks will become three west of 4th St (the current location of the Freight signals) or 6th St west of there.

Then at cut over everything is single tracked on Track 1 as Track 2 at 4th/6th St is connected to the current North Freight and the Coach Track is connected to the current South Freight (to become the new mains 1 and 2). Once that is done trains can flow on Track 2 and Track 3 while the new Track 1 alignment is put in place across Main St. Then the rest of the old work can be cleaned up.

cp421-170427fantasy.png

Not to scale. The new interlocking is shown as a question mark since I do not know the exact layout - but it should be five tracks to the west and three tracks to the east.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:17 pm

Work underway at CP 421 ... a new power pole, panel and equipment cabinet near the switch where the coach track joins Track 2. Based on the location of this equipment the current signal bridge should not need to be removed until the end of the project. (It appears that the new equipment may be replacing the power pole and cabinet just north of the North Freight track.)

cp421-Apr28-1.jpg

cp421-Apr28-2.jpg
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:25 pm

justalurker66 wrote:
tttodisp wrote:I am speculating that they will have to create temporary east end yard entry trackage to allow for reconstruction of the new trackage. It will be interesting to see how they do it.

I am expecting a temporary signal for at least Track 1 EB and the removal of the two "Main St" signals (EB next to Track 2, WB on the bridge) to be the first changes to the current working of CP 421. It sounds like most of the new plant will be west of the current limits of CP 421. Perhaps far enough west that the five tracks will become three west of 4th St (the current location of the Freight signals) or 6th St west of there.

Then at cut over everything is single tracked on Track 1 as Track 2 at 4th/6th St is connected to the current North Freight and the Coach Track is connected to the current South Freight (to become the new mains 1 and 2). Once that is done trains can flow on Track 2 and Track 3 while the new Track 1 alignment is put in place across Main St. Then the rest of the old work can be cleaned up.

The attachment cp421-170427fantasy.png is no longer available

Not to scale. The new interlocking is shown as a question mark since I do not know the exact layout - but it should be five tracks to the west and three tracks to the east.



Based on info I have seen, I am expecting some like this for the final arrangement:
CR 421.jpg
CR 421.jpg (5.91 KiB) Viewed 290 times
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby justalurker66 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:39 pm

tttodisp wrote:Based on info I have seen, I am expecting some like this for the final arrangement:
Image

Looks decent. From a physical perspective, having the Kalamazoo Branch join Track 1 "100 yards west" of Benham Avenue will lead to passengers crossing the connection to the Kalamazoo Branch to get to Amtrak trains. And if there are any issues where boarding would need to take place on Track 2 (there is a walkway for that now) the walk would be further. It will be interesting to see how it works out.
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Re: CP 421 Upgrade

Unread postby tttodisp » Wed May 03, 2017 1:16 pm

From what I can tell, the connection to the Branch will be about where the diamond is now (basically no change).
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