Porter Junction rail project finally gets green light

[justalurker66]

Photos from Whiting ...

CP 505 - to be removed

CP 506 - Hick Siding extension

CP 505 will go away with the Hick Siding extended to CP 506.

The third track is on the track base (no ballast yet) around the curve past the sports complex.

Hick Siding Extension

[justalurker66]

Someone spotted a new PL signal on #4 at CP 506

The eastbound signal for the track leaving Colehour Yard has been moved from the signal bridge to a track side signal.
The eastbound signals for track one and two remain on the signal bridge. The eastbound signal for "Track 4" (the track next to Track 2) remains a dwarf PL.

CP 506 EB

(The westbound signals at CP 506 are currently track side signals with the signal for track two in the way of the siding extension. See photo in post above.)

[LakeATCS]

How did you get the photo of the river bridge?!?

They may not be putting it in now, but that bridge is now good for 4 tracks! I had heard some rumblings that NS would extend the Porter Remote to 485 to act as a long siding to park their trains as needed.

There are some rumblings that NS has thrown some of it's own $$$ in on top of the gateway stuff for future expansion.

[esprrfan]

How did you get the photo of the river bridge?!?

They may not be putting it in now, but that bridge is now good for 4 tracks! I had heard some rumblings that NS would extend the Porter Remote to 485 to act as a long siding to park their trains as needed.

The middle bridge is in horrible shape, its going to be replaced. Been a 25mph on it for years

[Saturnalia]

How did you get the photo of the river bridge?!?

They may not be putting it in now, but that bridge is now good for 4 tracks! I had heard some rumblings that NS would extend the Porter Remote to 485 to act as a long siding to park their trains as needed.

The middle bridge is in horrible shape, its going to be replaced. Been a 25mph on it for years

I thought the 25 limit was due to the construction of the new bridge?

[justalurker66]

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife service describes the project as a replacement ...

Norfolk Southern Railroad Bridge Replacement within Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore
. . .
The project will consist of constructing two new bridges on either side of the existing bridge so that use can continue during construction (about 90 freight trains and 12 Amtrak passesger trains use the bridge daily in both directions), which will require widening the 25-foot high embankments across the floodplain and therefore clearing of several acres of mature trees.
. . .
The Indiana Department of Environmental Management Public Notice was issued on October 18, 2012; FWS provided comments agreeing to the project mitigation and concurrence of Not Likely to Adversely Affect the Indiana bat on November 2, 2012.

http://www.fws.gov/fieldnotes/regmap.cfm?arskey=33137

I could not find IDEM's public notice. The "widening of the embankment" leads me to believe that the new bridges are permanently placed. But the center bridge will not remain ... it will be removed.

The document LakeATCS linked earlier in the thread (now unavailable?) specified a lot of projects across the system. I do not see a reason for a change to 483 or extending the Porter siding to 485 to be omitted from the January 2015 presentation.

[Saturnalia]

Interesting. But how are they supposed to have a 3rd main west if they only have two tracks worth of bridges? Maybe a new bridge/bridges in the middle while M1 and M2 are shoo-flier to the out ones, and then later restored to normal with the north bridge becoming #3, and the south one being an acess road and potential siding extension/M4?

[justalurker66]

Interesting. But how are they supposed to have a 3rd main west if they only have two tracks worth of bridges? Maybe a new bridge/bridges in the middle while M1 and M2 are shoo-flier to the out ones, and then later restored to normal with the north bridge becoming #3, and the south one being an acess road and potential siding extension/M4?

They are not supposed to have a third main between 483 and 485.

BTW: If what you suggest is eventually done it would be the south bridge that would be the siding extension/third track and the north bridge could be the access road. The access road is on the north side of the tracks both east and west of the bridge location.

[Saturnalia]

My understanding was the new 3rd main on the north side, from 482 and then continuing west at least to 485, but I believe farther than that.

[justalurker66]

My understanding was the new 3rd main on the north side, from 482 and then continuing west at least to 485, but I believe farther than that.

If you have a source for that plan it would help. I have heard a similar plan offered up by railfans (extending the Amtrak line around the curve so WB trains can get up to speed and EB trains can slow down without impeding NS Track 1) but where I have seen such "plans" they have only been Internet rumors. No definitive source. (I heard it on the Internet is not a source.)

I believe the "grain of truth" behind the Amtrak merge track is the "meet/pass siding" that is part of the Indiana Gateway Plan. When I first heard of a meet/pass track I thought it might be west of CP 482, so I understand the confusion. The actual Amtrak meet/pass track near CP 482 will be constructed on the Amtrak Michigan line near MP 238 (near SR 49 and the west end of where Amtrak parallels US 12). MP 238 is just east of E 1400 N (where US 12 turns west away from the Amtrak line). CP 238 is just west of the SR 49 bridge over Amtrak.

NS does not seem to know about a "third main on the north side". Their third track is on the south side and ends at CP 483.

[Saturnalia]

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/pas ... oject.html

http://www.infrainsightblog.com/2014/06 ... y-project/

I can't find it now, which leaves it all in doubt, but my understanding was a new Mainline track, on the northside, from 482 to 485. My understanding was most of the new 3rd main would be build by connecting existing sidings, with a couple of s-curve re-alignments were the tracks would shift to one side or the other depending on which side of the ROW the new track is built on.

I'm not so sure on any of that...this is all just what my understanding of the project was. So don't shoot me if it ain't true, because I don't claim it is

*SEE BELOW INSTEAD...I Realize that it is for sure junk now*

[Saturnalia]

Okay, scratch that. At this point I'm not sure where that all came from, but I guess it isn't true so lets move on. I found this:

http://greatlakesrail.org/~grtlakes/doc ... d_List.pdf

Does a GREAT job of detailing the work that is to be done. I knew all of that was happening, but I guess at some point I can under the impression that the new siding was on the NS side instead of the Amtrak side, which would have run along the north side of the NS to 485. I guess it was a combination of using multiple sources over time which constructed a wild plan with some truth, but also some fail.

[justalurker66]

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/pas ... oject.html

"Amtrak will build a new passing siding near Porter Interlocking, where NS, Amtrak, and two CSX lines intersect."

http://www.infrainsightblog.com/2014/06 ... y-project/

"Most significantly, NS will construct a new passing track at Porter Junction, where NS, Amtrak and two CSX lines intersect."

When the professional media cannot agree on the story I don't blame people from being confused.

I'm not so sure on any of that...this is all just what my understanding of the project was. So don't shoot me if it ain't true, because I don't claim it is

I am not trying to shoot you ... just trying to keep the focus on what is really happening, lest this thread becomes a "source" for the next round of rumors. Thank you for finding and posting a correction.

The details in the new PDF are much clearer: "Construction of a new 3,000 foot long meet/pass siding on the Amtrak Michigan Line between MP 238.9 and MP 239.7." That places the Amtrak siding under SR 49 and I-94.

[justin_gram]

Okay, scratch that. At this point I'm not sure where that all came from, but I guess it isn't true so lets move on. I found this:

http://greatlakesrail.org/~grtlakes/doc ... d_List.pdf

Does a GREAT job of detailing the work that is to be done. I knew all of that was happening, but I guess at some point I can under the impression that the new siding was on the NS side instead of the Amtrak side, which would have run along the north side of the NS to 485. I guess it was a combination of using multiple sources over time which constructed a wild plan with some truth, but also some fail.

Cool, thanks for that. It does talk about extending the Porter Remote to CP 479, which I was hoping was in the plans.
Looks like CP 491 is getting eliminated along with CP 505, which was talked about a few posts up. New CP's at 490, 492, and a few more.

[Saturnalia]

I'm not so sure on any of that...this is all just what my understanding of the project was. So don't shoot me if it ain't true, because I don't claim it is

I am not trying to shoot you ... just trying to keep the focus on what is really happening, lest this thread becomes a "source" for the next round of rumors. Thank you for finding and posting a correction.

That wasn't posted with you in mind...

So a question remains: when will the new bridges at 484.5 be put into operation? Do we know if it will be a slide-in-and-replace or creating new leads to the bridge and dismantling the old structure once the two new ones are in place?

I remember Porter before that pesky 25mph slow order was in place. And man, it was great! Can't wait for that area to be a 60-mph speedway again.

[justalurker66]

Cool, thanks for that. It does talk about extending the Porter Remote to CP 479, which I was hoping was in the plans.
Looks like CP 491 is getting eliminated along with CP 505, which was talked about a few posts up. New CP's at 490, 492, and a few more.

The level of detail down to noting left hand and right hand crossovers is very helpful.

[justalurker66]

So a question remains: when will the new bridges at 484.5 be put into operation? Do we know if it will be a slide-in-and-replace or creating new leads to the bridge and dismantling the old structure once the two new ones are in place?

From the Fish and Wildlife description it looks like new leads will be built. I don't see the wheels under the bridge that are typical for a slide into place build - but I was more than 1100ft away from the bridge.

[LakeATCS]

Has anyone been up on the Amtrak line to see if Amtrak is doing any work up there?

it was only going to be 3000ft siding, Not sure what it would have helped since an Amtrak can be parked in the existing porter siding now.

The only thing we know for sure is that CP479 was built with a provision for a third track connection on the south side. (its in the plans)

My guess is the new bridges are for #1 and #2 mains and they leave a big ole gap in the middle they can come back later and plop a 3rd bridge in.

[justalurker66]

Has anyone been up on the Amtrak line to see if Amtrak is doing any work up there?

Nothing obvious. There is a spike machine on the MOW siding at Chesterton and there are plenty of concrete and wooden ties along the line in Chesterton but I didn't see anything specific for the siding (new panels, etc.)

it was only going to be 3000ft siding, Not sure what it would have helped since an Amtrak can be parked in the existing porter siding now.

Porter siding is on the wrong side of the tracks. Getting a train to or from there blocks both mains and (if westbound from the siding) could not be crossed back over until CP 487 (CP 485 after gateway construction completes).

If it is Michigan Line traffic passing Michigan Line traffic it should pass on the Michigan Line. The Chicago Line can then be operated as if the pass was not in play. Send the eastbound to Michigan when it arrives at CP 482 ... take the westbound when Chicago West wants it on the line.

[justin_gram]

Has anyone been up on the Amtrak line to see if Amtrak is doing any work up there?

Nothing obvious. There is a spike machine on the MOW siding at Chesterton and there are plenty of concrete and wooden ties along the line in Chesterton but I didn't see anything specific for the siding (new panels, etc.)

it was only going to be 3000ft siding, Not sure what it would have helped since an Amtrak can be parked in the existing porter siding now.

Porter siding is on the wrong side of the tracks. Getting a train to or from there blocks both mains and (if westbound from the siding) could not be crossed back over until CP 487 (CP 485 after gateway construction completes).

If it is Michigan Line traffic passing Michigan Line traffic it should pass on the Michigan Line. The Chicago Line can then be operated as if the pass was not in play. Send the eastbound to Michigan when it arrives at CP 482 ... take the westbound when Chicago West wants it on the line.

Here are pictures of the area, taken on 4/2/2015

New Rail:


New Concrete Ties:


Ballast Cars:


More: