Something with East Columbus Terminal Railway

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northstar16
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

The guy has something up his sleeve. He is talking transloading and having a customer yet he only has one mile or less of track. Then I think he is talking about adding more track in the future. Now he is talking about getting an engine which is going to be some bucks. Since that line has not been used in years he will need to get some kind of support for the tracks so they don't move. There is more than just buying tracks especially since they haven't been used for years. They did do a good job if clearing the bush and fixing the water issue that is coming from the subdivision but it is going to take more than one little pipe that runs under the rail to fix water issues. I'm really not sure where he thinks he is going to make any money with this project after he gets the rails fixed up. Then there is G&W!

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by Chip »

DaveO wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:41 am
I've checked the Surface Transportation Board to see if they have filed to be a railroad.
No luck finding anything to indicate that has been done.

Being a railroad under Federal law gives you lots of protection from local laws and lawsuits.
That's what Matty Moroun tried to do with the Mc Clouth Steel site in Trenton, Michigan.
They made a railroad to try to circumvent the local zoning laws that were preventing him from making it an intermodal terminal.
The courts didn't buy that though as it was clear the intent wasn't to run a railroad.
It wasn't the McLouth site as a whole, it was just the northernmost segment of it and the tracks that (formerly) crossed over W. Jefferson. You’re right though, it was a total farce. Scared the hell out of GI Township though, they tried to seize the toll bridge via eminent domain and lost. It was a total crap show.

It does make me wonder what they’re going to do now that the Morouns own the whole site, not just that northernmost section. There's a big fight brewing over how that land will be zoned in the future.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by Jim_c »

Even if the HOA owns the land, he may own the right of way. It would be kind of like your power company sells the lines and ROW across someone's land to another power company. The land owner can't suddenly insist the lines be removed or not used. If that is the case, the HOA's case will be much weaker. And if G&W stands to lose a customer, they may join any legal fight on this guy's side. That certainly would level the playing field so to speak. If there was no ROW or if it was released, that would be a different story.

If the NIMBYs give him too much trouble, he should put in a train horn field testing facility. :D
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northstar16
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

Jim that would really rock the boat. I know a guy who lives next to the tracks here in Cincinnati and a nice residential neighborhood how loves trains and he gets to see a few a day from his house. IN the back of his house he stores whistles train whistles from as far back as 100 years ago. He is a collector and he gets them working. At 8:00 a.m. every morning he gets up and blows one of them for one minute drives his neighbors crazy but they can't do anything about it. One good thing is if you need to be at work by 9:00 a.m. it is a great alarm...LOL

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by ns8401 »

northstar16 wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:31 am
Jim that would really rock the boat. I know a guy who lives next to the tracks here in Cincinnati and a nice residential neighborhood how loves trains and he gets to see a few a day from his house. IN the back of his house he stores whistles train whistles from as far back as 100 years ago. He is a collector and he gets them working. At 8:00 a.m. every morning he gets up and blows one of them for one minute drives his neighbors crazy but they can't do anything about it. One good thing is if you need to be at work by 9:00 a.m. it is a great alarm...LOL
Sorry my neighbor didn’t go off this morning for some reason? :lol:
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M.D.Bentley
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

That HOA mentioned, cannot interfere with interstate commerce. So they have that. Because there is a existing customer and not a potential customer , they have a better chance. Good luck to them

midland sub
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by midland sub »

I'll give them credit for finding a niche that might work and also might not. It's interesting to follow them as they share their adventure of making this into potentially something. We do have to be honest about a few things and honest about some of their rather interesting interpretations of the situation in their view. They're using the term "abandoned" rather loosely as it's not truly more than an industrial track that never fell into the spectrum of the outside rail world and rules of the ICC and STB to the best of my knowledge. You can use the term abandoned in the theory the tracks were no longer used and the property was available to purchase- but again as it's been stated above he bought nothing more than a parcel with a chunk of rail and ties- which again stated above was never apart of the STB which would make it a real railroad. Nevertheless there's certainly nothing to prevent him from moving forward to clear off the old tracks and remaining spurs to do what he pleases. Hopefully G&W is receptive to whatever he's trying to do and he finds a niche to add a few car loads to their and someone else's bottom line.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

I have been looking at this track from Google Earth. It appears to be only one customer on the line and most likely G&W does their service. Not sure where he is going to get additional business unless he is going to do car storage. He only has one mile at the most. Surely he has a game plan in progress as he is buying equipment to get the rail ready. I like following his video's.

northstar16
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

Interesting video yesterday on the new one mile railroad doing ditch clearing to move water. I thought it was kind of strange that they are off the tracks with large equipment digging. Wonder how much of the property they own? Thought it was only the tracks the guy bought. Now he is trying to divert the water under the tracks by digging a few ditches with the spring and summer rains come so the water doesn't go over the tracks. A good move but how much property does he own left and right of the tracks?

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by Chip »

It's generally 10 feet either side of the tracks isn't it?

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by ns8401 »

Chip wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:22 pm
It's generally 10 feet either side of the tracks isn't it?
I thought it was more like 50 or 100 feet. It’s quite a large area Either side
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by heypal6878 »

I too have been following this guy on You Tube. Think he said in one of his early vids that the track is just less than a mile. Looks like most of the rail he bought is clean up for now but water is going to be a issue if he can't get it under control.

He must have some kind of a deal with the condo or housing place behind there if he has that equipment digging trenches moving the water into a different direction. I can see maybe he owns the rails but usually 10 or 15 feet either side of the rail might be his but the rest surely doesn't belong to him. So he needs some kind of permission. Looking at Google Maps there appears to be a retention pond or maybe just a small lake not far from the tracks. I would think when the pond fills up water overflows to the tracks. He may need to dam it up or if a drainage ditches moves the water down the tracks more that may take care of the issue. Either way he needs to dig under the tracks have support and put a series of drainage pipes under the tracks I would think to get all of the water to the other side during heavy rains.

I wish him the best looks like a two or three man show. It would be very cool to own your own rail tracks. Not sure where he is going to get the business as the G&W services the one factory along the main unless this guy thinks he is going to get some storage business but he doesn't have that much line to work with. Maybe he should have bought the rail out east of the 78 mile maker of the Peavine all the way to the Vera bridge. He could fix the rails and hope a business would move their in the years to come that would use the line.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by DaveO »

This gives an idea of the land involved. Using an aerial photo layer, it appears to be pretty accurate. It's the thin parcel in the middle.
https://maps.franklincountyauditor.com/ ... 9%2C102100

northstar16
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

Dave it appears where he is digging the ditch is near the pond or retention pond not sure which it is. From Google earth if looks like a pond but either way when that pond fills up the water must run by the tracks. He has his equipment fairly far from the tracks which I would think infringes on the property that doesn't belong to him as ten or twelve feet is the max for any ownership of a rail either side. He would need authorization from the property owner to dig on the property or put an water flow ditch diverting water. Maybe he did. Now looking at it closer I don't see a creek on the other side of the tracks but i do see one larger body of water. Wonder if that water makes it to the tracks.

Thanks for the map makes it much easier to see.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by DaveO »

Their property is 100 feet wide but the rail is apparently east of the property centerline.

northstar16
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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by northstar16 »

Thanks Dave that clears that up. I just don't understand where they are going to make any money on this short track. Only one customer there and G&W services them. Not sure where they intend to get another customer unless someone is hauling stone gravel rock maybe will park a few cars on their tracks and from there the G&W will hook up and pull them out for a fee.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by TC Man »

You guys who love the CCET so much where the majority of their revenue comes from storage are giving this guy a hard time? He has clearly stated many times that he's going after storage. Even 3/4 mile (or even 1/2 mile allowing him lead track to move around) can be filled with quite a few rail cars, and how much per car, per month??? Also, most of what I've read stated that most rail roads own 50'on each side of the track from the center line.

I will hope he's been getting the proper permits for redirecting those drainage ditches and channeling water.

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by DaveO »

Industrial spurs don't need the right-of-way that is appropriate for a mainline.
That last sentence is something I would consider as a hard time :P
When storing cars you need to allow enough room to get that specific car out that is at the very end of the line.
He doesn't get to use the tracks belonging to others due to regulations.
He can pay them to dig cars out but there goes the profit.
If he can build his YouTube channel into something, that likely would be the real money maker.

edit: they can limit themselves to blocks of cars and have the contract exempt the requirement to pull specific cars. (LIFO, last in first out)

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by TC Man »

DaveO wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:30 am
Industrial spurs don't need the right-of-way that is appropriate for a mainline.
That last sentence is something I would consider as a hard time :P
When storing cars you need to allow enough room to get that specific car out that is at the very end of the line.
He doesn't get to use the tracks belonging to others due to regulations.
He can pay them to dig cars out but there goes the profit.
If he can build his YouTube channel into something, that likely would be the real money maker.

edit: they can limit themselves to blocks of cars and have the contract exempt the requirement to pull specific cars. (LIFO, last in first out)
Yeah, that why I mentioned 2/3 or 3/4 mile of track instead of a full mile that he supposedly has- he'll need that leeway to switch cars. Or only make contracts for entire trains (like an empty coal train, etc.) where the entire block of cars goes in and eventually back out as a block. I have heard many stories of making money just on YouTube videos alone- I wonder how much he could actually make on his videos as he builds an audience. Maybe enough to finance a model train layout hobby, only with 1:1 scale track and equipment to play with? :)

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Re: Where/what is this railroad(East Terminal?)? Actual real question.

Unread post by PatAzo »

TC Man wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:34 pm
and how much per car, per month???
https://www.pioneer-railcorp.com/wp-con ... CW8998.pdf

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