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Stay tuned, new cracker plants are opening and more are planned for the area...And many railroads will get in on them.

arty flowers wrote:Stay tuned, new cracker plants are opening and more are planned for the area...And many railroads will get in on them.

Sources?

Like this joint venture that's coming to Dilles Bottom Ohio, Will be served by NS,

http://www.theintelligencer.net/news/to ... 6KuEp7dAlg

arty flowers wrote:Stay tuned, new cracker plants are opening and more are planned for the area...And many railroads will get in on them.

You’re talking about a process that requires natural gas. The line in question is on the fringe of the proven reserves, so with a third in the area of the proven reserves under construction, what makes you speculate on the potential for one on the KNWA?

As for traffic, the coal mine at Burr Oak is nearing the end as the OC coal trains will end once the Coshocton power plant shuts down next May. The small grain elevator at Thurston shut down as the operator went bankrupt- NS owns the property and probably won’t lease it out again in relation for the KNWA-OC doing a short lived corn shuttle for the Coshocton ethanol plant. Coal mine on the WV side closed and coal traffic cut in half on the WV side. Coal was going north on the Ohio side about once a week. They did develop a new traffic source- fly ash from a local power plant is loaded at Hobson. Line is still basically what it’s been the last 10 years minus some of the coal traffic. Just now it’s slowly falling apart as a typical Watco marginal operation

Fine I should've said I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. because I have no idea what the north end of the KNWA has planned. As as far as those other little things going I put them somewhere else.

midland sub wrote:

arty flowers wrote:Stay tuned, new cracker plants are opening and more are planned for the area...And many railroads will get in on them.

You’re talking about a process that requires natural gas. The line in question is on the fringe of the proven reserves, so with a third in the area of the proven reserves under construction, what makes you speculate on the potential for one on the KNWA?

As for traffic, the coal mine at Burr Oak is nearing the end as the OC coal trains will end once the Coshocton power plant shuts down next May. The small grain elevator at Thurston shut down as the operator went bankrupt- NS owns the property and probably won’t lease it out again in relation for the KNWA-OC doing a short lived corn shuttle for the Coshocton ethanol plant. Coal mine on the WV side closed and coal traffic cut in half on the WV side. Coal was going north on the Ohio side about once a week. They did develop a new traffic source- fly ash from a local power plant is loaded at Hobson. Line is still basically what it’s been the last 10 years minus some of the coal traffic. Just now it’s slowly falling apart as a typical Watco marginal operation

I don't think KNWA saw any traffic from Burr Oak.

What mine shut down? Last I knew, High Power (Cornelia), "Deepwater" (Page, WV), Mammoth, and Quincy (at Dickinson) were loading.

Wasnt fly ash already being loaded at Nitro?

What about that methanol plant that was being built in Institute West Virginia. Is it online yet?

arty flowers wrote:Fine I should've said I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. because I have no idea what the north end of the KNWA has planned. As as far as those other little things going I put them somewhere else.

You are such a baby.

arty flowers wrote:What about that methanol plant that was being built in Institute West Virginia. Is it online yet?

As much effort and time you put into finding business development stuff rail related or not, I would have thought at some point a map of Ohio's gas and oil producing regions would have crossed your path.....

Yes, last someone posted, construction had begun. It's parts of a plant from I believe Brazil that's being taken apart and shipped in. As for the traffic once it starts, people that know more about it, say it's mostly or entirely going to move by barge. If production was strictly moving outbound by rail, which it sounds like it will not, the plant at most would generate about 1700 cars a year. At some point there's going to have to be a major effort to develop non coal traffic for the line.

OSRR wrote:
I don't think KNWA saw any traffic from Burr Oak.

What mine shut down? Last I knew, High Power (Cornelia), "Deepwater" (Page, WV), Mammoth, and Quincy (at Dickinson) were loading.

Wasnt fly ash already being loaded at Nitro?

Pinnacle was the mine company so I believe that was Deepwater. I see pics of the Mammoth trains quite a bit. High Power loaded a few trains in the beginning of the year, but I believe that they are close to being mined out. Quincy seems to load the trains that end up going north- first half of the year seem to be Burns Harbor and then they switch to Sandusky. FWIW the current coal traffic of 12-15 a month total is what Watco had projected from the start, they lucked out and it doubled for about a year and then dropped back down. That's why the CEFX SD60s left.

Not sure about the Nitro fly ash.

Y@ wrote:

arty flowers wrote:Fine I should've said I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. because I have no idea what the north end of the KNWA has planned. As as far as those other little things going I put them somewhere else.

You are such a baby.

That's ok, your name calling doesn't really matter to me anymore. because I got a fb rr group page of my own Im in charge of and nobody calls me names or makes fun of me. I love it and Im in control. And I don't have to worry about you joining, because I know you wont come around anyway.

midland sub wrote:

arty flowers wrote:What about that methanol plant that was being built in Institute West Virginia. Is it online yet?

As much effort and time you put into finding business development stuff rail related or not, I would have thought at some point a map of Ohio's gas and oil producing regions would have crossed your path.....

Yes, last someone posted, construction had begun. It's parts of a plant from I believe Brazil that's being taken apart and shipped in. As for the traffic once it starts, people that know more about it, say it's mostly or entirely going to move by barge. If production was strictly moving outbound by rail, which it sounds like it will not, the plant at most would generate about 1700 cars a year. At some point there's going to have to be a major effort to develop non coal traffic for the line.

Yes Mark I am well aware of where the gas and oil fields are and everything seems to be to the north and the east. Im not sure what the next thing for KNWA to haul but it will take some to develop just like everything else around that area. They only see a nibble. And about my site that I created for myself, other than that weirdo William Littrell, nobody has given me any problems and I enjoy having people from all across the spectrum of transportation on my site. I just like to meet people who share a common interest such as myself.

arty flowers wrote:

Y@ wrote:

arty flowers wrote:Fine I should've said I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground. because I have no idea what the north end of the KNWA has planned. As as far as those other little things going I put them somewhere else.

You are such a baby.

That's ok, your name calling doesn't really matter to me anymore. because I got a fb rr group page of my own Im in charge of and nobody calls me names or makes fun of me. I love it and Im in control. And I don't have to worry about you joining, because I know you wont come around anyway.

Good for you, don't let it go to your head.

---

Disappointing to hear the coal traffic is stumbling a bit on the KNWA. Was just thinking about this line the other day. In retrospect, I was surprised they picked up the ex-VGN south of Charleston in the first place. Seemed like such a high maintenance price for a traffic source that is (to put kindly) really ebbing and flowing. 12-15 trains a month isn't horrible though. As for attracting new business on the northward section, well, there really isn't much that part has to offer either. The best bets of developing any new industry is in the Columbus or Charleston regions. They have a good base in Charleston already, but they need to take the means necessary to keep it and grow it, as I really don't see a big time traffic source locating to a place like Athens or Glouster.

For some added substance, here's a shot of a 381 near Rushville from two years ago. Long trains and SD45 carbodies go together nicely...

I am a bit confused by the trackage arrangement down by the Ohio River crossing. Using the online Ohio Rail map as a reference, I see what appears to be this line running from Columbus down to Hobson Junction. At Hobson Jct, there is a CSX line which runs from that point to just south of Addison, where the line appears to change hands again, back to what I assume is the KNWA. The KNWA (I assume) then crosses the river into WV south of here at Kanauga - Point Pleasant.

What is the arrangement that allowed CSX to have this section or track which isn't connected to any other CSX trackage? Was there previous B&O or C&O trackage on this side of the river which they operated and they now only use a small portion of the trackage so they have secured trackage rights over the WV Secondary from across the river in Point Pleasant?

Was this part of the Conrail breakup?

chapmaja wrote:I am a bit confused by the trackage arrangement down by the Ohio River crossing. Using the online Ohio Rail map as a reference, I see what appears to be this line running from Columbus down to Hobson Junction. At Hobson Jct, there is a CSX line which runs from that point to just south of Addison, where the line appears to change hands again, back to what I assume is the KNWA. The KNWA (I assume) then crosses the river into WV south of here at Kanauga - Point Pleasant.

What is the arrangement that allowed CSX to have this section or track which isn't connected to any other CSX trackage? Was there previous B&O or C&O trackage on this side of the river which they operated and they now only use a small portion of the trackage so they have secured trackage rights over the WV Secondary from across the river in Point Pleasant?

Was this part of the Conrail breakup?

This was original C&O trackage that the NYC had trackage rights on. Line ran from Logan to Gallipolis and then over to Pomeroy.

Is anyone familiar with the current operating schedule for 380/381 in and out of Watkins Yard in Columbus, which days they run and what time of day?

I've only caught them down at Bannon a handful of times since the KNWA takeover, the last time it was 2 of the exNS SD60's on the train, although I do sometimes hear them on the scanner talking to NS.

Schedule fluctuates based on coal moves but most often it works this way.
380 Watkins to Hobson late afternoon/evening on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, continues Hobson to Dickinson the following day (Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday) with crew on duty Hobson in the 11AM-1PM time frame. The outbound 380 crew switches their train before departing Hobson.
381 usually departs Dickinson on Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday afternoon or evening. The Wednesday 381 goes north from Hobson on Thursday, the Friday 381 goes north on Sunday, and the Sunday 381 goes north on Tuesday. From time to time 381 will be light power as they have to position the units for 380 even if there are no cars to go north.

The CSXT Pomeroy Subdivision extends from milepost 119.0 at Kanauga Junction to milepost 127.9 at Hobson connecting with the KNWA on both ends. The mileposts are measured from Columbus Union Depot and are from the same milepost system found on the CSXT at Parson Yard and continuing on the IORY Logan Sub and the Hocking Valley Scenic. While the KNWA is a north-south railroad the Pomeroy Sub is an east west railroad with the timetable direction being east from MP119.0 to MP127.9. CSXT MP119.0 is equivalent to KNWA MP125.7 and CSXT MP127.9 is equivalent to KNWA MP116.5 so you can see the mileposts run in opposite directions. KNWA mileposts are measured from Bannon in Columbus where the NYC crossed the N&W. A CSXT track inspector runs the Pomeroy Sub weekly and movements are controlled by the BF dispatcher in Jacksonville. There are no regular CSXT train moves on the Pomeroy Sub. There are 2 power plants on the Pomeroy Sub and maybe once a year they will receive a car. CSXT serves the line off the Ohio River Sub at Pt Pleasant WV via the KNWA between Pt Pleasant and Kanauga.

Some maps show the KNWA connection at Hobson as Hobson Junction however Hobson Junction was further east on the now abandoned section of the C&O running toward Pomeroy. It was a connection primarily for NYC passenger train to avoid the NYC yard trackage at Hobson and reach the C&O main trackage rights territory.

The C&O operator's office at Hobson was MP127.9.

https://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com ... 272793001/

If the WV Secondary was a cat, it's probably on life #8 and someone just ran over it's tail. The link is to a story about the upcoming closing of the Buckingham Mine that currently only loads coal for the AEP power plant at Coshocton that's also shutting down next May at the latest. The Ohio Central has trackage rights to the mine from the old short lived Moxahala Valley and then Ohio Southern.

The car loads on 380/381 have dropped about 15% or more for the year. They finally are getting back to doing some car storage on the WV side. There's 30-40 grain cars stored at Thurston. NS owns the property at Thurston where the old grain elevator stands. The short lived grain traffic the KNWA-OC did via New Lex pissed off someone at NS and now the property will rust away in disuse.

It's not hard to chase one of the 380/381 as they usually are daylight and the Ohio side is almost entirely 10 mph... I wouldn't wait a few a years to make an effort over there with how NS and Watco are working together.....

Other than a few NS coal trains loaded at Buckingham a couple years ago, the only traffic there was Ohio Central, not exactly a crippling blow to the KNWA. They still make pretty good time for constant 25mph on the Ohio Side, though there are definitely some slow orders around.

https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Chemi ... 02551.html

Chemical plant at Belle losing a production line and laying off a third of their staff. Plant shipped 10-15 cars a week, which 60% or more was from that production line.

The OC coal trains provide some very precious revenue on the Ohio side, that other than the handful of fly ash loads at Hobson (which will stop for a few months), there’s zero revenue in 100 plus miles.