Near Collision in Fostoria

[atrainguy60]

A CSX wb to nb freight almost hit a NS ethanol train right by the rail fan park. Both trains saw each other and were going slow enough and stopped in time. Trains has an article on it:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... 0-fostoria

[cr6903]

The Fostoria Newspaper had an article about it (online). Of all people, they spoke to Ellen. Anyone familiar with this woman is probably rolling their eyes as they read this. Anyhow, she stated "this is the second close call since they closed the tower" and suggests of all things, getting the Government involved due to it being a "Safety issue"
While Fostoria is a complicated area, there's been towers at other just as complicated situations closed long ago and it hasn't made a difference. For example, when Marion 'AC' closed in January 1995 it covered the junction of three double track lines from three different companies. Having someone close by wouldn't make any difference if it were a signal violation or something similar.
If Ellen thinks CSX is doing a poor job of keeping it safe, how does Government intervention help?

For the "Head" of the Fostoria Railroad Heritage stuff, she's pretty vocal about attacking CSX and NS. If it weren't for them, she wouldn't have her precious park to begin with!

I have also seen a report describing a "Close call between CSX and Union Pacific in Fostoria", but I guess that one was expected.

[heypal6878]

A good heads up by both crews as if the CSX train was going full blast this could have been a disaster for sure. Had to be a computer error.

[Saturnalia]

A good heads up by both crews as if the CSX train was going full blast this could have been a disaster for sure. Had to be a computer error.

It is:

A: pretty clear at this point from several sources online here that the CSX train passed a stop signal, and

B: signal systems are fail-safe. There is no such "computer error" that can allow conflicting routes, because the hardware in the field is hard-wired not to allow it.


Now the CSX train could not have been going fast, because they were on the NE transfer, which is a slow speed connector. They'd be able to stop very fast in any instance. Meanwhile, the NS was also slow, having had been stopped west of the interlocking waiting on CSX traffic. So obviously both hit the skids as soon as they noticed what was wrong, and both stopped on a dime relative to train terms.

[CSX_CO]

Software may be programmed to eliminate the possibility of conflicting moves, but doesn't mean there can't be a malfunction in the field which allows a false "clear" (proceed) signal. One in recent memory involved some signal wires which had been fastened to some ties. When they did it, the fasteners broke the insulation, contacting the bare wires, which shorted the system out, and the signals didn't drop when the tracks were shunted. So while the hardware may not allow it, it can happen.

This appears to be a clear cut case of failure to comply with signals given, but you can't make the statement that false "clears" can't happen in the field.

[heypal6878]

Agreed! Most likely a crew error not seeing the light or maybe they were distracted. I been up there and the speed is not very fast at that location most of the time. They had plenty of time to slow down so this wasn't a factor. Yet computers are not 100% fail safe.

[SousaKerry]

I maintain the position that a local tower operator would have see the engine run past the signal and could have alerted the crew but only if the crew either heard the radio call or saw an operator flagging them down.

I'm sure eventually the cab video footage will come out and reveal the cause. If this story got picked up be the local paper and Trains Mag. you can bet CSX is gearing up for a public relations nightmare.

[CSX_CO]

I maintain the position that a local tower operator would have see the engine run past the signal and could have alerted the crew but only if the crew either heard the radio call or saw an operator flagging them down.

Too many "ifs" in that statement. This happened behind the tower. Operator would have had to be an Olympic Sprinter to get ahead of the Q train and flag them down after getting by the signal.

[JoJames]

F tower operator may have told them to take it easy or holdup at Columbus avenue till the NS clears and that would have been the only thing that may have been different if F tower was still staffed.

[MQT1223]

Is the signal for approaching the diamond in an area where it could be missed if distracted long enough? I've never been to Fostoria, but I have a general idea of the setup.

[Saturnalia]

Is the signal for approaching the diamond in an area where it could be missed if distracted long enough? I've never been to Fostoria, but I have a general idea of the setup.

Well dwarf signals, some in odd spots but the crew *should* be qualified and know that. Coming up to red signals, you're gonna get progressively more restrictive aspects to a stop, or if they were cleared, a Slow Clear. Fostoria is one of those places where it might not go Clear-Approach-Stop, due to a quick sucession in signals. Coulda been Clear-Approach Limited-Approach Medium-Approach Slow-Stop if the system is setup for that.

[CSX_CO]

Better not get an approach slow into a stop signal. Show me in the definition of approach slow where it says I need to be prepared to stop at the next signal.

[Saturnalia]

Better not get an approach slow into a stop signal. Show me in the definition of approach slow where it says I need to be prepared to stop at the next signal.

Haha, oops. You'd be correct on that count

Should be Approach.

[JoJames]

Crew said the had a slow approach on the dwarf coming out on to C&O main and also thought this signal was for the diamond. Which it is not and the should have stopped before entering the interlocking at Town Street. This would be the overhead signal just to the south of the diamonds.