NS Peavine talk

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:30 pm

Flood damage spring of '02 damaged some of deck girder sections on both sides of the truss section. My understanding it wasn't enough damage that required immediate repairs so they slapped a 10 mph slow order on it. I don't know if you were with NS back then, but Peavine was supposedly already under the bean counter microscope for mothball/railbank study anyway. They never fixed anything which further stressed the damage with the heavy coal and grain trains on and off until the last train ran over it May '03 (L51?). I don't know anything about bridges so the conversations I've had about the damage is honestly over my head. Basically old fatigued metal at expansion joints and load bearings that have bent sections out of clearance. So the opinion is to get it back into service is replacement of a couple deck girder sections, total re decking and shore up all piers, one of which on the western approach supposedly needs a lot of work from flood damage this past spring. Now that's just the opinion of some, might require even less work or even more. Do they take care of the clearance issues to allow doublestacks if intermodal is in the mix? No mention of the track work needed from Plum Run to Vera other than supposedly several substantial washouts.

As for the CCET. Indeed there was discussion about Williamsburg to Plum Run to get access to the quarry there. If and when it does happen it's going to be a situation where the state of Ohio thru the Ohio Rail Development Commission acquires the line. The ORDC made a lot of things happen to get the lease set up for the CCET to continue service to Batavia. CCET has their work cut out for them to get anything else going. They already had to repair a sag in the tracks from a washout.




brc0227 wrote:It's odd that NS only filed the discontinuance from Williamsburg to Plum Run. And the timing of the filing is odd too. Considering the short line operating the peavine on the west end had been in negotiations with Plum Run when this was filed. I will say that NS is full of it If they say the line needs that much work to be class 1 10MPH standards. I've been down that line. They could run 20-25 on it right now with no track upgrades. Not saying it doesn't need work. But overall it isn't in bad shape other than the Vera bridge. And I honestly don't know what the Vera bridge needs.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:39 am

I've seen pictures of those washouts between Vera and Plum Run. One of them was a problem area that they had every couple years back when there was a decent bit of traffic on it. I believe overall there are 4 of them. And from my knowledge on railroading. And talking to some old heads. Those washouts could easily be fixed in a day, maybe 2. So they're not major washouts that would cost millions to fix. Other than that the track really just needs ballast in spots along that section. Otherwise it's in pretty good shape. Ive seen mainline Csx track that didnt look as good.

As for the bridge I admittedly don't know much on it either. John Stiverson, the old bridge and building foreman out of portsmouth told me that there was really nothing wrong with that bridge. Just needed minor repairs. He said that the higher ups used that bridge as an excuse to shut down the peavine to save money. He's the one that took care of that bridge. So I'd say he would know. But he retired 2 years ago. So hard to say what the bridge is like now. As you mentioned a pier shifting after this last winter. Could end up being a major problem. But I honestly don't know.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby cumbres » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:53 pm

As nothing more than your basic railfan, I really think that it would be to NS`s advantage to reopen the Peavine simply from a time and fuel savings point of view. The very fact that it is a much shorter route to Cincy than how they are currently doing it via Columbus then running back South, probably at least 125 miles shorter. I know the big hit against the Peavine is the curves and grades. However, in talking to folks that I know that work for various railroads currently, they all say, to a man that is just a cop out by NS because the modern locomotives in use now can pull those grades no problem. Like I said before, I`m just a railfan, not a railroad employee, so I have to believe what I`m told by folks that work there everyday.
As far as the costs involved with reopening this line being extreme, how much would it cost NS if UPS and FedEx among others that depend on NS for on time service were to start using other means to get their freight from point A to B? Intermodal is the big "cash cow" for all the big railroads today and if you can`t deliver, then I`m sure CSX, UP, Kansas City Southern, and BNSF will be more than happy to pick up the extra carloads and the cash that NS is willing to part with because they can`t handle the task at hand. I realize that UP, BNSF, and KCS are predominately Central and Western railroads, but the freight could be rerouted away from Norfolk and sent to other ports where a different railroad or trucking company would be more than happy to get the business. NS could open up the `Vine in a fairly short length of time if the Vera bridge is in a serviceable condition not requiring extensive repairs. They could do directional running, and just send the slower common freight over it. I mean, how many trains a day would we be talking about anyway, 6 to 8? NS has mothballed this line for long enough, if the economy continues to improve as it has and rail traffic continues to grow by leaps and bounds as has happened in the last few years they are going to have to fish or cut bait regarding the Peavine sooner than later.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:36 pm

I'm sorry, I don't follow your "logic" at all. First, what does the Peavine have to do with hot UPS or FedEx traffic? To that point, what traffic is "strapped" by a whole 125 extra miles? That's really not that much, especially for freight. To upgrade the Peavine to me makes no financial sense. Especially with such little traffic to route that way. It would make far more sense to run the CFE and turn south at Colsan to bypass Bellevue to save time which is the real problem. I think people sometimes get emotionally tied to a route. People need to let it go: not gonna happen.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby ns8401 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:42 pm

bdconrail29 wrote:I'm sorry, I don't follow your "logic" at all. First, what does the Peavine have to do with hot UPS or FedEx traffic? To that point, what traffic is "strapped" by a whole 125 extra miles? That's really not that much, especially for freight. To upgrade the Peavine to me makes no financial sense. Especially with such little traffic to route that way. It would make far more sense to run the CFE and turn south at Colsan to bypass Bellevue to save time which is the real problem. I think people sometimes get emotionally tied to a route. People need to let it go: not gonna happen.

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Y@ » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:51 pm

Why won't this just die?!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:53 pm

As nothing more than your basic railfan, I really think that it would be to NS`s advantage to reopen the Peavine simply from a time and fuel savings point of view.

How many times is next basic railfan going to rehash this issue? To put it mildly, I'd rather hear that NS Portsmouth employee point of view on things for right now. Your lucky the last two posters and myself have been easy on you because there are other posters on this board who are rather blunt about these kinds of things..So watch what you say.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby cumbres » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:18 am

Geez fellas, not looking to step on any toes. Just trying to get some friendly conversation going for Pete`s sake. If it bothers folks that much that somebody has a different point of view, then what is the sense of having a blog site for anyway. I mean, aren`t we all here for the same thing, the love of railroading? I guess we will know what`s going to happen with the Peavine in a few weeks, judging from what has been posted by NS employees on other forums, something is in the works.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:14 am

He's lucky that you and other posters have been easy on him? What is that suppose to mean? This is suppose to be friendly conversation about railroading. Right or wrong he posted his point of view on the issue. Why chastise him for it? Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why you would treat someone that way for posting their thoughts on something. And if you're tired of of the talk about the peavine and want it to go away. My suggestion is to stop reading about it. Because apparently there are people that aren't tired of it. And those people want to discuss it.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:58 am

brc0227 wrote:He's lucky that you and other posters have been easy on him? What is that suppose to mean? This is suppose to be friendly conversation about railroading. Right or wrong he posted his point of view on the issue. Why chastise him for it? Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever why you would treat someone that way for posting their thoughts on something. And if you're tired of of the talk about the peavine and want it to go away. My suggestion is to stop reading about it. Because apparently there are people that aren't tired of it. And those people want to discuss it.


Never said I wanted the Peavine to go away dude, I am all for the Peavine, in hope of the possibility of a reopening some day..that and Buckeye Yard. On the other hand, out of all the people who posted that they wanted to see this peavine thread die, you come down on me for warning someone to watch what they say...alrighty then fella.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:46 pm

My post wasn't just aimed at you redside. There were several post it was aimed at. You was the one that said he's lucky that you and other posters were easy on him. And I said what's that suppose to mean? Why is he lucky that you And other posters are going easy on him? Like I said it just makes no since to me to chastise someone for stating their opinion on the matter. This being his first post on this site one would think he would recieve a warmer welcome.

The rest of my post about "wanting it to go away" was directed at one of the post above yours. The guy says and I quote "why won't this just die". I took that as he's tired of people talking about the peavine possibly opening. As I said on that if you're tired of people talking about it then my suggestion is stop reading it. Because there are people myself included that are interested in the discussion.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby railohio » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:23 pm

Norfolk Southern Railway Company-Discontinuance of Service Exemption-in Adams and Scioto Counties, Ohio

Norfolk Southern Railway Company (NSR) has filed a verified notice of exemption under 49 CFR part 1152 subpart F—Exempt Abandonments and Discontinuances of Service to discontinue service over approximately 31.5 miles of rail line extending from milepost CT 73.50 at Plum Run to milepost 105.00 at Vera (West Portsmouth), in Adams and Scioto Counties, Ohio (the Line). The Line traverses United States Postal Service Zip Codes 45652, 45657, 45660, and 45663.


Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... o-counties
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:34 am

My GAWD the horror. The absolute pure horror of it all. Don't the people in Norfolk know that the "little people" in Portsmouth are thinking....?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:04 am

I'm from Portsmouth. And I'm not so little. So you can get out of here with that crap. Why people on here have to act all high and mighty about all of this I'll never know. All you're doing is showing your maturity level. Smh
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:16 am

And as for this discontinuance from Vera to Plum Run. They already said when they filed the other discontinuance that this one was coming. So it's not like this came out of no where.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby CSX_CO » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:26 am

brc0227 wrote:And as for this discontinuance from Vera to Plum Run. They already said when they filed the other discontinuance that this one was coming. So it's not like this came out of no where.


But didn't you go to great lengths to say the NS was only days from possibly running trains on this line?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:16 am

I never said the were days from running on it. You either didn't read Or you're trying to put words in my mouth. I said they were considering using it. And I gave arguments why. I also said that it wouldn't take much to get it up and running. That the line isn't in as bad of shape as they let on. But i also said in the end who knows what they'll do. And that it's likely to sit and rot for 10 more years.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:18 am

brc0227 wrote:I'm from Portsmouth. And I'm not so little. So you can get out of here with that crap. Why people on here have to act all high and mighty about all of this I'll never know. All you're doing is showing your maturity level. Smh


I feel like I'm witnessing a christening of Ohios version of MQT. Because you work for NS out of Portsmouth, I will admit you had me fooled when you first started posting. But lately the more I read your posts, the more things just don't add up. This is what happens when someone like MQT grows up and gets a job on the railroad. If that really is your line of work. Who am I to believe here? a horses mouth who claims he works on the railroad or an official piece of paper tied to a government entity authority who makes the decisions.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:42 am

Interesting that you've never heard anyone in Portsmouth management ranks refer to themselves as "little people" in reference to the ivory towers of corp in Norfolk. Supposedly it's been an offhanded comment used since after the days of the 1978 strike. You have to be within ear's reach of at least somebody down there in Lake Div. management to know the stuff you're posting.

brc0227 wrote:I'm from Portsmouth. And I'm not so little. So you can get out of here with that crap. Why people on here have to act all high and mighty about all of this I'll never know. All you're doing is showing your maturity level. Smh
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:03 pm

Here's the issue that's coming up here and a couple of other places with I presume you at each place. We respect the info and where it's coming from, but the issue is some of us may not work at NS, but we know people there that you don't or we know the regulatory process. Yes we know someone from the Lake Div was out there looking at the line. Yes it was mandated from Norfolk that each Division come up with solutions for how to handle the record traffic levels and resulting congestion. The problem is anytime anyone says anything that you don't agree with you get rather thin skinned about it. We can agree to disagree, I would love to see it back in use personally, but there's more than a few people that go beyond glassy eyed railfans that just run with stuff. So stop getting bent out of shape about it.

brc0227 wrote:I never said the were days from running on it. You either didn't read Or you're trying to put words in my mouth. I said they were considering using it. And I gave arguments why. I also said that it wouldn't take much to get it up and running. That the line isn't in as bad of shape as they let on. But i also said in the end who knows what they'll do. And that it's likely to sit and rot for 10 more years.
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