NS Peavine talk

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby MagnumForce » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:47 pm

The only major line that was railbanked and then pulled out that I can think of was BNSF over Stampede Pass. Am I missing any others?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:21 pm

Three reasons Peavine is mothballed and going to stay so for years and years to come.....

1. Money and lots of it. There's more issues with the bridge at Vera. Realistic looking $4.5 to $5 million alone to get it back in service. Second the millions upon millions upon millions of dollars its going to take to get Vera to Red Bank into just secondary main condition. Can they even get the waiver to not repair the signal system??? CCET had to do work to repair a washout already and they just took over. So if you think they are going to send the slower coal and grain traffic over the line then it can't be a streak of rust that it is now. They would be better served to add more double track on the Sandusky Dist.

2. Cincinnati. Jammed pack already with traffic on NS other than the Dayton Dist. New Castle already to jammed to add some more slower coal and non priority traffic. Was in Cincinnati today. Got to see NS priority intermodal trains in action..... Three jammed up trying to get into Gest or thru it. One was sitting on Ohio River bridge that moved maybe at best ten car lengths in the hour plus I was over on the west side of Cincy. Right behind on the Kentucky side another sitting waiting for that one to clear up. North of Gest around NA another intermodal sitting and waiting to get in. All three had JB Hunt containers so not a low priority by any stretch.. So let's reopen Peavine to add more traffic to Cincy.....

3. CFE..... Why would I pay millions of dollars to fix something to bog down Cincy more and more when I have the trackage rights over another line they pay hardly anything in fees plus still dispatch and it avoids the area congested......?????

I know I'm coming across as a dick but I've had this conversation twenty times in the past couple of weeks with foamers. You're an employee so please take this as not an insult or attempt to classify you as one. I have some decent connections out there. Couple are in the know in many ways in your parts. They went thru the 2006 rumors too.

I'll try and clean up the conversation I had with my in the know today about the Peavine so it's not so direct nor it gives up this person's position.

"those SOBs are the reason we are in the spot we are with their micro managing #$%. Those boys don't know if it's Tuesday or Christmas so how in the #$% do they know anything about railroading? That line is nothing but a money pit. Been that way since we merged with the Southern and they let it go to pot. Sitting ten plus years without nothing but bird #$%& and rain hitting them rails. It's a sponge now. You try and reopen it and it's going to just keep sucking up everything you put into it.... I'll be dead and in the dirt along with probably you before it ever gets used again..."

Now the one rumor about Portsmouth more of a chance of happening is the car shop getting sold.....
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:32 pm

So you're telling me there's actually a rumor on the car shop getting sold in Portsmouth? You hear that from your buddy in the know too? Or am I to take that as sarcasm?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:42 am

Car shop has been on the radar to be shut down or sold to Progress Rail for awhile. I would say since the recession at least or probably longer than that. It's the railroad. Everyday you're one train from shutting it all down and pulling up the tracks or booming with what seems like no end in sight...
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:01 am

If you honestly think the car shop is on the radar to be shut down. Then I have to question everything you've said on here. NS is more likely to run double stacks over saluda than they are to shut down and sell the Portsmouth car shop to progress. So I suggest you find a new "in the know source" at NS. Because the one you've got isn't very "in the know" if that's the kind of info they're telling you. Smh
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby CG Tower » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:44 am

I think we get it midland sub...the railroad is a hot bed of rumors and speculations. Most of us already knew that.

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:52 pm

Hmmmm... you must work in the car shops. FWIW that source isn't at NS and probably knows that side of the business better than anyone. Everything has a price and is for sale so don't think for a minute outsourcing it hasn't been looked at. Those that make those decisions are pure and simple number crunchers that never made a weld, hung on the side of a freight car in freezing rain, or tried had to duck tape and baling wire something together because there wasn't money or time to make the proper repair. I'll take your word that you indeed work at NS in Portsmouth in some department, so you understand that last statement of why your job everyday is much, much more difficult than it needs to be... By the way I know a handful of the guys in shops. Great guys, but they know the "score" especially the ones that got moved down from Buckeye.

Problem with railroads is what you never expect usually happens. Track down the guys that worked the Peavine. Talk to the guys that lost their jobs across the river with CSX in Ashland. Buckeye was too new and efficient for NS to shut down... Better yet talk to someone that worked the old B&O out of Chillicothe. Hear the angst 29 years later about that day in August '85 of getting off the last westbound Trailer Jet and seeing the bulletin in the crew office @ DO about a meeting at 7 pm in the Holiday Inn. Some packed up and bumped where they could, others cashed it in and tried to move onto a different career. Sort of one of those it could never happen things.... Strike back in '78 was another one of those events. Management can't run a railroad for more than a week without "us". Unfortunately the actions of some of the "brotherhood" on the picket lines in Portsmouth just made that resolve that much stronger.

As for my NS sources. Both have been around for years in different positions of this and that. Seen many come and go and things change for the better, but mostly for the worst. Both in the same position as you, have no voice or part of the decision on outcome of anything at work especially the Peavine, but they know the secret to NS and every other company.....




brc0227 wrote:If you honestly think the car shop is on the radar to be shut down. Then I have to question everything you've said on here. NS is more likely to run double stacks over saluda than they are to shut down and sell the Portsmouth car shop to progress. So I suggest you find a new "in the know source" at NS. Because the one you've got isn't very "in the know" if that's the kind of info they're telling you. Smh
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:29 pm

Trust me when I say I know how the business works. They don't call it "being railroaded" for nothing. Nothing is definite when it comes to NS. I've always taken the stance that you have to see it to believe it. Otherwise never believe it until then. All I spoke of was speculation. Based off of the info I've been told. And being in the industry and a former union representative I know people myself. In all departments. Lets start with the facts. The peavine was hyrailed by several division heads. Not just a boss in Portsmouth as you said. As I stated above the division engineer and his assistant were among the ones that hyrailed it. That's a fact as I know it straight from the horses mouth. Another fact is there is a reason it was hyrailed. As I mentioned above. Regardless of what traffic is like around cincy it all pales in comparison to the gridlock between Chicago and Bellevue. As stated above they're in the midst of possibly losing some of their biggest time freight. And now they're considering anything. Which is the whole reason they hyrailed the peavine in the first place. Their idea is get some of the slower freight out of the way of some other busier lines by routing it down the peavine. Now is it that simple? No it isn't. Nothing is that simple on the railroad. But that's why they considered it in the first place. Does that mean they're going to reopen it? No it doesn't. All it means is that they looked at their options regarding it. Now that we've gotten to that point. All the he said she said is irrelevant. Until there are definite signs that they're reoping it. IE like fixing a couple of the washouts just past plum run. Or work on the bridge at Vera. We can take all speculation and rumors with a grain of salt. We should known for sure one way or another by the first of the year. Several things if which I won't speak here will be set in motion by then that will tell them if it's a viable option or not.

As for the Portsmouth car shops. If you knew anything about them. You would know that there is no way Its going to be sold. Yes it could be shut down. But it isn't like let since it's considered the baby of the higher ups in mechanical. Not to mention they've put all their eggs in one basket so to speak with Portsmouth. As its considered the center of program car work. They do equivalent car work there as all the other car shops combined. And they do it safely. Being the first ever car shop to go a million man hours injury free is something the company boasts about on a regular basis. Plus the union has an agreement with NS that doesnt allow NS to contract car work out until certain things are met. So the so called rumor about progress is more than just unlikely. Doesn't mean they couldn't shut it down. But selling it isn't happening.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby railohio » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:02 pm

Alright. Picking fights after less than a week here. Where's my popcorn?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:49 pm

Didn't come here with the intention on picking a fight. Came here to discuss the peavine. And then I get a condescending attitude from this guy on my first post Smh. If he had approached it with a more respectable attitude it would've been different.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:51 pm

railohio wrote:Alright. Picking fights after less than a week here. Where's my popcorn?


I like the new guy already...he's locked and loaded and ready to tangle with all the whos who of foamers on rrrode fight...Keep em comin new guy!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:21 am

Lol I'd rather not tangle or fight with anyone on here. Just came here to discuss the railroad.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby ns8401 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:14 pm

brc0227 wrote:Lol I'd rather not tangle or fight with anyone on here. Just came here to discuss the railroad.

I've seen a lot of bizarre things across a multitude of industries happen right after someone said "it'll never happen". The biggest tragedy in the broader picture over the last 40 years was the elimination of the "redundant" lines when traffic was lower, now they don't have the tracks to handle the traffic. If this was still Conrail and the CASO through Canada still existed they would be able to relieve the Chicago line via Michigan but since the end in Buffalo is CSX and the CASO has been torn out that wouldn't work. Or if the the EL existed and Pennsy was still double track. So in a way the railroad is dealing with the other side of the coin now on downsizing.

I do agree with you that everything has to be a wait and see but the possibility has to at least be put on the back burner. Todays "it'll never happen" is tomorrow's "they finally went and did it". I've been through a few of those myself and as soon as the rumor starts you have to know that it originated somewhere... with someone... who heard something... So the question is whether someone misheard or misconstrued something or if they really might sell the shops. I doubt they would but you really never know.

No fighting here... just some random thoughts I had.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:11 pm

There's a foamer that hasn't found this board that is driving me insane about the Peavine rumors. I thought that this person had and sunk to the low acting like an NS employee which this person has elsewhere. Funny thing is this person sent me a message today about 217/218 and western coal with DPUs moving to the Peavine next year.

Now that we broke the ice or melted it... So what's the thought behind the expense of reopening the Peavine and the logistics of adding that traffic to the New Castle Dist and whatever else to bypass Chicago-Bellevue? You go backwards in time to 2008ish NS is at the cusp of moving 217/218 to the CFE. CFE you avoid the entire Chicago-Elkhart-Bellevue congestion. Don't own the line, but you dispatch it to your advantage... The reasoning behind the alleged rumor today on 217/218 was UPS traffic. Can the Peavine clear doublestacks? I see 218 almost everyday and the UPS traffic isn't anything most days. Discuss

brc0227 wrote:Lol I'd rather not tangle or fight with anyone on here. Just came here to discuss the railroad.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Y@ » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:13 pm

Can I just repeat what Cory said earlier?

Not. Gonna. Happen.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:36 pm

When I used to document my railfanning back while living in Bellevue from 2002-2005, 217/218 was the most shortest if not the fastest train that ran the Columbus and Fostoria Districts. You had to be on the ball when that train came to town because if you blinked you missed it. It was almost always 30-50 platforms of soaking wet UPS trailers, with a few Schneider, XTRAlLEASE, JB Hunt and an occasional Lance snack food trailer from time to time.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:41 pm

MagnumForce wrote:The only major line that was railbanked and then pulled out that I can think of was BNSF over Stampede Pass. Am I missing any others?



I would love to get into an argument with some western foamers about the possibility of reopening Tennessee Pass in Colorado, Or the Modoc Line out in California.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby railohio » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:37 pm

redside20 wrote:I would love to get into an argument with some western foamers about the possibility of reopening Tennessee Pass in Colorado, Or the Modoc Line out in California.


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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redside20 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:53 pm

railohio wrote:
redside20 wrote:I would love to get into an argument with some western foamers about the possibility of reopening Tennessee Pass in Colorado, Or the Modoc Line out in California.


http://www.trainorders.com


Nah..not worth my money. That's what Mags is here for..
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby brc0227 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:07 pm

I heard the same rumor today about western coal and 217/218 running on the peavine. Don't know how much truth is in it. But the 217/218 used to run on the peavine. Albeit on all single stack. I don't see them running single stacks at all anymore. Not efficient enough. What I was told in the beginning was that they were thinking about using the peavine for grain, coal, and possibly crude oil to by pass much of the northern traffic. Now I admittedly don't know much about the CFE. And I don't know much about traffic levels on the New castle line. I just know that NS thought process was to get the slower trains out of the way of this time freight. Because like I said earlier. NS hasn't been able to even get half of the UPS and FedEx trains on time for the last year. Plus you get that traffic away from Bellevue. Which is a cluster already. And they just started using the New class yard last week. And it's going to get worse. I know everyone keeps talking about the cincy to Columbus route. Yea it is an easier route to run on. But I think they're wanting some of the slower stuff off If it as well. Because they're planning on sending darn near everything they can send to Bellevue to get classed. And that's the quickest way from the cincy area to get to bellevue. Just remember no matter what all of us think should or will happen. NS marches to a different beat. So hard telling what they're going to do.
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