NS Peavine talk

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Ohio.
heypal6878
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by heypal6878 »

Today I stopped to get some coffee at McDonalds in Mariemont and the NS crew was sitting there having breakfast. Thought I would take a seat and chat for a few minutes. Asked them how things were going for the CET. They said well tanker business is great for them. They are doing very well with the storage business but now since the CET is moving more tankers over the rails they are starting to do more work on bad spots that have come up in the last few months. With all of this rain we have been having of late some maintenance work needs to be done. NS has been hauling materials for repair to the siding at Clare to take up east. Many new ties and gravel has been moved east. I asked about new business on the line and these guys didn't have a clue about any new business on the rail other than the paper plant and the Ag where most of their hauling business comes from. The fact remains the same the CET is going after more storage until a company decides to build on the line that wants rail storage. These guys said as long as the tanker storage business keeps the CET afloat they will be just fine. If that bubble ever breaks there isn't much on the line where they can make any money. So it remains to be seen if any business forms on the Peavine.

TC Man
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:25 am

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by TC Man »

heypal6878 wrote:Today I stopped to get some coffee at McDonalds in Mariemont and the NS crew was sitting there having breakfast. Thought I would take a seat and chat for a few minutes. Asked them how things were going for the CET. They said well tanker business is great for them. They are doing very well with the storage business but now since the CET is moving more tankers over the rails they are starting to do more work on bad spots that have come up in the last few months. With all of this rain we have been having of late some maintenance work needs to be done. NS has been hauling materials for repair to the siding at Clare to take up east. Many new ties and gravel has been moved east. I asked about new business on the line and these guys didn't have a clue about any new business on the rail other than the paper plant and the Ag where most of their hauling business comes from. The fact remains the same the CET is going after more storage until a company decides to build on the line that wants rail storage. These guys said as long as the tanker storage business keeps the CET afloat they will be just fine. If that bubble ever breaks there isn't much on the line where they can make any money. So it remains to be seen if any business forms on the Peavine.

What is "the Ag"? Is that a business name where is should be The Ag (capital "T")? Or ??? With the "a" on "ag" capitalized, I assume it's a proper name?
CEO of the Waving Institute- teaching great wave forms.

User avatar
Muleskinner
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by Muleskinner »

TC Man wrote:What is "the Ag"? Is that a business name where is should be The Ag (capital "T")? Or ??? With the "a" on "ag" capitalized, I assume it's a proper name?
From my understanding, it's the grain company out in Winchester. (Winchester AG Services)

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

I have noticed of late that the NS has been down at Clare a few times a week dropping off tankers and grain cars. Wednesday they had a load of both sitting on the side tracks some went back to Sharon Yard yet they dropped off 20 tankers to be moved east. Engineers said they have more tankers on the way for next Monday sitting at the Sharon Yard. I know the CET is busy as they come to Clare now four times a week. The tracks are rather shinny now looks like all the railroad ties have been hauled up east no more down at Clare.

Thursday there were several people from the Wasson Way Project down at Clare looking at where the new bike path is going to run. That should be interesting to see if NS will even let them on the property or by the tracks. The engineers on the NS train said they can't put a bike path next to a active rail so if the WWP wants to put in a bike path it will need to go in the south 80 and under the NS bridge. They will need to put plenty of dirt to build that up under there as the Little Miami rocks and rolls under that bridge when the river is up. I didn't see any railroad officials with the WWP people on Wednesday.

midland sub
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 2096
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by midland sub »

I doubt the Wasson Way people get anywhere close to Clare anytime soon with that trail. The city of Cincinnati doesn't have the cash to fund it. If I'm not mistaken at most they have the funding to do a mile or so. If I read the article about the one Cincinnati council member saying they wouldn't be getting anymore cash, at most the Wasson Way people only have 4 miles figured out.

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

From what I gathered at Starbucks in Mariemont where they stopped to refuel there caffeine habit the State of Ohio is funding the trail from the cut off in Ault Park, off the long trestle and down along the old Penn tracks. Mariemont may need to sell off some of they lower 80 by the tracks to put in the bike path. That is the issue now. The State will need to purchase the property as the railroad is active and no bike path can be placed next to the active track with a high fence. Still even with a fence I don't think NS will let them build any path next to the tracks. The tracks there are rather active five days a week with these tankers coming in and out all week long. Today another 40 or so came from Sharon on a NS going eastbound. The real issue come under the bridge that goes over the Little Miami that is where the focus is on now. The river floods there often and that is a railroad bridge. The railroad a few years ago worked on that bridge to make sure it was secure. The State will need to put in plenty of concrete or blacktop with maybe some elevation to keep it above the floodplain

The State has the funding for the expansion of the bike path. The Wasson Way Project partnered with City of Cincinnati who put up most of the money like you said to do the four miles. Now they are pulling tracks along Wasson Way and by the park. The next major expense will be putting a path over the Red Bank Road trestle.

heypal6878
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by heypal6878 »

Active is not the word for it! Clare Yard and the side railing for the CCET has become very active in recent weeks. Correct there is a NS engine down at Clare most of the time during the week. Not sure what is going on down there, as for years that yard was empty, building taken down, place was pretty much abandon. Now it is half way full of tankers and there are a few newer buildings down there. Many of the rails have been pulled from Clare Yard however there are several still down there. The rails that have been pulled are the ones by the hillside that has slipped over the years causing mud and tree slides. NS is actively working down there today moving cars and tankers. Looks like the CET will be coming down to get a few cars and tankers on Wednesday. Meanwhile it appears that NS is storing tankers as well as the CET. I gather since NS still owns Clare they may as well use it for something.

As far as the State of Ohio and that bike path is concerned that is going to be a hard one to figure out. The only way it can be done is if Mairemont would give the State a passage on the South Eighty below the tracks then they would need to go under the bridge as you said Northstar. The path would not be able to go over the tracks. After it goes under the tracks there isn't much room going east after that so all the property from there going forward will need to be dug out by the river for a path to take shape away from the active siding tracks that the CET uses. I would figured it can be constructed but this would be the most expensive part of the project and maybe the most complicated. That Red Bank Road Rail Bridge that NS did own will also be a challenge to build a bike path over it and fence around the bridge.

Was down there today pretty much rail activity going on. Cops up on the hill watching pretty intently don't want to get caught on railroad property.

User avatar
Muleskinner
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by Muleskinner »

I'm not sure what all of you are looking at, but the Wasson Way Project will go over Wooster Rd then go between Clare Yard and Miami Bluff Rd then along Miami Run then in front of Kroger's or behind then hook up with the Little Miami bike path at Newtown Rd. The path will be well away from Clare Yard. The state just has to purchase the property which is either owned by Mariemont or NS.

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

Correct that is one possibility however traffic in that area is bad for bikes or people walking so the alternative route is along the south 80 which would be the preferred route and one that is on the table.

heypal6878
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by heypal6878 »

Northstar I wonder what is going on down at Clare Yard. For the longest time Clare Yard has been closed with no activity at all. The last few months there has been daily activity down there with one NS engine down there pretty much stationary during the week. This morning I was down there in the rain noticed that the NS engine is down there sitting in the yard. Several guys in the yard as well. Several tankers sitting there on four rails in the yard. IS NS storing tankers or are the tankers going to the CET. There are several tankers on the east side of Clare on the siding as well has some grain cars guess getting them ready to go back east today.

NS has done some rail work in the yard recently. Maybe NS is planning on using the yard to storage?

heypal6878
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by heypal6878 »

I was at a meeting yesterday were again the talk was about the concept of having a commuter train on the Peavine that will extend from the Boathouse to Milford The City of Cincinnati leaders are pushing for this along with some people from ODOT. The meeting I was in yesterday was a transportation meeting very intense at times with ideas of trying to find alternatives for getting car and truck traffic off of route 50 and 32 which is a nightmare the past six months and getting worse.

From what the tentative plans that have been showed the major expense would be the train and passenger cars, stops along the way that would have parking and buildings and disable access, and maintain the line and the trains. The State is really working on a plan and will bring it to the railroads involved by the end of the year. Some funding has already been established the rest still needs to be figured out but their is a plan. The feeling by the State is the most expensive part is the rails which are in place so working with the railroad to come up with a workable plan is going to be a challenge but the feeling it can be reached.

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

Sorry been out of the country for the past week just sat down at my computer and was looking at the forum pages. Heypal you may have a point about the commuter rail. Was talking with the Mayor of Newtown before I left and there has been some rumblings about commuter rail since 32 and 50 are becoming such a bottle neck. The village on Main at 4:30 till 6:00 is one big traffic jam and the same goes for the morning. One accident and it is a parking lot.

Community leaders want something down and are willing to pay to get something done but don't want any major highway or bypass going though their towns and villages. So the only other option is commuter rail. Will people ride it is the big question and how many stops. The more stops might make people not want to ride it. What happens when they stop at the boathouse as most people work in town? I hear maybe a shuttle maybe provided for a minimum charge. The plan on the board may indeed take the pressure off the roads and that is what Milford, Terrace Park, Newtown, Mariemont, Columbia Township, Fairfax and the city want.

The sticking point is NS and the contract they have with the CET. Money is a also a sticking point but as Portman said both can be resolved with future talks that apparently is going to happen before the end of the summer. The State has all but given up on the bypass cutting a road down 32 over to Red Bank so that is dead in the water. It is very likely in the next ten years we will see a short commuter rail on the Peavine. If successful they may extend it to Eastgate and beyond. Never say never when the State is behind anything. Most of the money is there sitting on the sideline.

User avatar
Muleskinner
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by Muleskinner »

northstar16 wrote:Sorry been out of the country for the past week just sat down at my computer and was looking at the forum pages. Heypal you may have a point about the commuter rail. Was talking with the Mayor of Newtown before I left and there has been some rumblings about commuter rail since 32 and 50 are becoming such a bottle neck. The village on Main at 4:30 till 6:00 is one big traffic jam and the same goes for the morning. One accident and it is a parking lot.

Community leaders want something down and are willing to pay to get something done but don't want any major highway or bypass going though their towns and villages. So the only other option is commuter rail. Will people ride it is the big question and how many stops. The more stops might make people not want to ride it. What happens when they stop at the boathouse as most people work in town? I hear maybe a shuttle maybe provided for a minimum charge. The plan on the board may indeed take the pressure off the roads and that is what Milford, Terrace Park, Newtown, Mariemont, Columbia Township, Fairfax and the city want.

The sticking point is NS and the contract they have with the CET. Money is a also a sticking point but as Portman said both can be resolved with future talks that apparently is going to happen before the end of the summer. The State has all but given up on the bypass cutting a road down 32 over to Red Bank so that is dead in the water. It is very likely in the next ten years we will see a short commuter rail on the Peavine. If successful they may extend it to Eastgate and beyond. Never say never when the State is behind anything. Most of the money is there sitting on the sideline.
It would be nice if there was commuter rail in the Cincinnati area, but the cost of maintaining it after it is built might be a problem. Cincinnati is not considered a high end money city. Commuters will not want to pay a lot to ride to work every day or pay a high monthly rate for a pass. They like to drive their cars. It takes a lot a money to maintain rail service & if it does happen it will work for a while till maintenance needs to be done. Unfortunately, this country is built for cars and trucks now. That's why you see rail lines closing every 3 -5 years. It just cost too much to maintain with less and less companies & people using rail service. When the interstate hwy system was put in place that was the start of the decline in railroading...... Actually the invention of the automobile was the start, but the interstate hwy was the nail in the coffin.

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

I would happen to agree with you on all points however if you travel east to west everyday from say Milford or Eastgate to work downtown and sit in traffic for over an hour I would think the public would be willing to use commuter rail. Traffic most night from Columbia Parkway East to Fairfax to Mariemont to Newtown is at a stand still. The commute home is like an hour or more after leaving downtown. It is a real mess.

According to Portman unlike to Streetcar in Cincinnati the rails are there already. The rails are in great shape, crossing gates need some work but that is understandable. The cost factor will be the station stops, parking lots, security, maintaining the rails and the equipment and of course the train itself. Budgeted fixed cost has already been established. The next major cost will be the contract with the railroad for the rights to use the rails.

Cincinnati is a very conservative city yet people are getting tired of sitting in their cars, and trucks in a bottleneck on the east side. Since the route 32 expansion is dead in the water commuter rail is becoming a most talk about alternative. It will be interesting to see it this concept will get off the ground here soon. According to many people it is a real possibility.

CAPTAIN
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by CAPTAIN »

That would be interesting if it comes to pass. I just don't see the ridership, though. Too many stops, how to get to work once you're at the Boathouse....

midland sub
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 2096
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by midland sub »

The Peavine doesn't technically start until it crosses the river at Clare. What's still in place is a small amount of the old N&W yard at Clare and tracks to now abandoned Hyde Park Branch. The main line is actually the old PRR main. The Sorta and I&O ownership of the old PRR is from Valley Junction down to the Boat House which we discussed before. They also own the the leg of the wye that's not in service next to the container box plant. I get the Columbia Parkway and Beechmont Ave stuff is a pain, but with the fiasco of the street car that continues to snowball ask yourself if you really think commuter rail is possible? Especially with a billion dollar plus Brent Spence project that no one wants to fund. So if it somehow happens where in the world in Milford do you build a station and more importantly a parking lot that won't cost you millions of dollars and not in a flood plain?

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

Yes sir I kind of agree with what you said here. Yes the Streetcar to nowhere in downtown Cincinnati was a lost cause on paper before they even built the dang thing. The old Mayor really bamboozled the taxpayers and city council on that one. The worst part is nobody now wants to pull the plug so taxpayers in Hamilton County will be paying for years until someone says enough is enough. By that time the resale value of the streetcars they have will be worth nothing to resell. The track will not be pulled up but covered with blacktop and the debt will be millions upon millions. A sad situation for sure.

Although the idea of a commuter train is a far fetched idea it is still be looked at very closely. There is a plan in place the Boathouse is the final destination on the track and from there Cincinnati Metro will bus to various locations downtown.

The old PRR tracks which do intersect with the I&O all need to be looked at carefully and has been noted in the plan. I understand this fall all parties will be contacted about the idea moving forward. As far a stations there are five at the present time. One of course at the Boathouse, one in Linwood, on in or by the Fairfax Mariemont line, one just outside of Newtown, and one just outside of in Perintown on Round Bottom Road. Each location has abundant parking if need be.

Ridership is always a sticking point...will people support the idea...will they ride the commuter train? This remains to be a major question. How much will this all cost and will taxpayer need to pick up some of the bill? Most likely they will. Building the Stations will be rather expensive because of the land involved yet this has all be budgeted for in the plan and the State has most of the funding.

The major sticking points in getting the railroads on board. No pun intended!

User avatar
Muleskinner
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:28 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by Muleskinner »

northstar16 wrote:Although the idea of a commuter train is a far fetched idea it is still be looked at very closely. There is a plan in place the Boathouse is the final destination on the track and from there Cincinnati Metro will bus to various locations downtown.

The old PRR tracks which do intersect with the I&O all need to be looked at carefully and has been noted in the plan. I understand this fall all parties will be contacted about the idea moving forward. As far a stations there are five at the present time. One of course at the Boathouse, one in Linwood, on in or by the Fairfax Mariemont line, one just outside of Newtown, and one just outside of in Perintown on Round Bottom Road. Each location has abundant parking if need be.

Ridership is always a sticking point...will people support the idea...will they ride the commuter train? This remains to be a major question. How much will this all cost and will taxpayer need to pick up some of the bill? Most likely they will. Building the Stations will be rather expensive because of the land involved yet this has all be budgeted for in the plan and the State has most of the funding.

The major sticking points in getting the railroads on board. No pun intended!
The boathouse is not the final destination. Years back when they re-built the interstate through downtown and all the streets around it, there was a tunnel put in under Second St. On the east side it exit/enters at Broadway St. On the west side it exits/enters around Central Ave/Rt 27. So the options are there to put the commuter rail through to the west side if they want. That is why they put the tunnel in, incase it comes to a reality of commuter rail. Right now it's used for parking, I believe.

northstar16
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 306
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by northstar16 »

I hate to disagree but under the new plan the Boathouse is the final destination. The plan calls for a drop off and pick up at the Boathouse middle lot from there customers will be bussed to areas downtown by Cincinnati Metro. There are no plans to transport west of the Boathouse. There may be a tunnel there but not using it as so says the plan. There is so much here but funding is 75% there but they would like some funding from major companies in Cincinnati to donate as well.

heypal6878
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread post by heypal6878 »

Northstar have you heard anything from the NS crew that they may be using someone else to transload tankers. I was talking to a guy who works at NS in Sharonville and he and has buddy were talking that NS may be switching up things and having another railroad transload tankers to the CET

Post Reply