NS Peavine talk

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:54 am

Sure, anything is possible as long as rails are still there. But its a LONG shot and I can assure you no one is looking into it. Plus, unless you find some sort of extractable product in the ground (oil, gas, coal, copper, etc.), why would any company needing rail decide to build a facility in a geographically challenging area where the rail would not only require significant work to restore, but Federal STB approval to reopen vs. building on shovel ready sites on live rail with easier access to Rt 32 just a few miles to the west?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby cctigers09 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:02 pm

northstar16 wrote:Very negative. Years ago many said it would only go to Mt. Orab now the line goes out 78 miles. Never say never as anything is possible!



Not negative, just realistic. No economic sense for either NS nor CCET to open the line to Portsmouth. NS gets nothing out of it other than the headache of interchange someplace they have no interchange with anyone at. No customers nor any hope of customers in the miles between Plum Run and Portsmouth...and CCET would not get any access to anything in Portsmouth. Just extra wasted miles over curves and hills for CCET to deal with...in other words, it gets them nothing.

Besides, the track has been sitting for years now...it would take massive amounts of $$$ to put it back into shape for running 10 mph...let alone anything over it. Yes, it is nice to dream but it is just that, a dream. No realistic chance of it happening.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:54 pm

Well you guys know more than I about the logistics on the eastern side of the line. I haven;t been up that way in years. I have seen some you tube videos of the tracks up that way some look okay while others look like they need some help. The bridge looks fine to me but not sure how stable the bridge is to Portsmouth. That is one long bridge over the wetlands and the river surely after all these years just sitting there unused it would need plenty of work.

From what I understand NS has not sold any of that unused rail. My buddy works for the State of Ohio Board of Transportation. He said that the rail was looked at two years ago for maybe a bike path/walking path and a grant would be given to a county up there if they wanted to explore the idea. NS did not want to sell any part of the rail. He said it is very hard to get a railroad to sell their property even if the rail is abandon or closed down for years. They prefer to hold on to there property. Rarely do they sell rails.

Just that property from the 73 mile marker to Portsmouth alone is a good amount of property yet there isn't going to be a sale not even for the bridge which has been out of service for years. So it just sits and the wood ties starts to rotten even more.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:26 pm

There’s just as much or even more land (and a former industrial site east of Portsmouth) that a business can easily develop vs anything between Peebles and Vera/West Portsmouth.

Scrap just give up. They won’t give up or understand why Portsmouth is no go. I mean if anyone might know better than......
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:43 pm

Today I took the SUV went out to Rarden Ohio to look at the Peavine tracks. Never been out that way before kind of a nasty day so nothing to do at home took the dog and went for a long ride. Noticed the CCET has plenty of cars stored out that way. When I got to Rarden (a very small town) I see there are two tracks there that go for a few miles before they go back to one. Great siding if the CCET ever needed more storage tracking. I walked the tracks for about a mile after I parked the SUV and really the tracks there are pretty good. Rusty for sure but the ties are in okay shape not worse then Past Jailbird and the area is flat for the most part. There is some growth on the tracks weeds and such but other than that the rails look rather good. One guy I spoke to there who farms land there said several months back there was a truck on the track white looked like a crew was doing some inspection of the rails and ties. Must have been awhile ago as the rails didn't have any shine on them. He said he spoke to one of them and they said most likely the short rail line that runs the line now will not go out this far unless a major company buys land out this way and needs rail transportation.

He said I have a home made rail car with a motor on it that we use in the summer to ride on the old abandon rails. I said man that is trespassing on railroad property if the police catch you that would not be good. He said out here the police are all related to someone who lives out here they don;t really care. He showed me his rail car thing with a large Briggs and Stratton engine on the back. Pretty neat looking thing I must say! But Midland Sub is correct don't think the line will ever be open to Portsmouth there is just too much expense to fix the rails and after Rarden I bet it gets very hilly. Why go to Portsmouth if the CCET has a connection to Clare and then to Sharonville with the NS.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Paw95 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:01 pm

i would love to own a few of them signals. most of them shot up and gutted by vandals.[youtube]Paw95[/youtube.i have many videos of the east end.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Paw95 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:18 pm

I also have the videos of the bad rail bed slip at rushtown at MP99-MP98.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby jallenp7 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:19 am

Hey Scrap,

Does the railroad still pay property taxes if a rail line is out of service, and if the rail line is leased by a short line, who pays the taxes, just curious?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:28 am

CCET pays all property taxes, does all maintenance, keeps all lease revenue (private crossing, utilities, easements, etc) on everything from MP 9 to Jaybird Road, same as if they owned it. However, tax amounts are negligible - insurance is a lot more than taxes. Other than some tax heavy states that tax the value of the rail, etc, the whole property tax excuse for abandoning property doesn't really hold water in the over grand scheme.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:14 pm

Question are the rails from Jay Bird to Portsmouth been classified by NS as Abandoned or Out of Service? If abandoned NS has the right to sell the property to township of the counties up that way for walking trails etc. Why is NS holding on to the property? From what I have heard from locals out that way last week two counties has been talking to NS but the railroad doesn't want to sell any of the rail property. I find this perplexing as NS must be paying taxes on the property to the State and local counties that the rail is located yet there hasn't been any traffic of the rails for years and appears there will never be any traffic on the line. So why hold onto to the rails?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:44 pm

NS portion of line has a Federal Discontinuance of Service designating. As such, it is NOT abandoned, thus can NOT be sold for a trail. However, all common carrier obligations are suspended and line can not be used without going to STB to reactivate. So it sits in limbo under NS ownership. NS is content to leave this line (and other lines, most famously Saluda) in limbo status vs formerly abandoning or selling. That is their right, and there is little that anyone can do to change it. County would have to file adverse abandonment against NS then take by eminent domain. That would be VERY expensive, something Adams County could not afford nor should waste their money on.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:49 pm

Scraphauler don't you find this strange that NS who owns this line and has a discontinuance on this section of the rail wants to keep it knowing that it will never be used. According to one on the farmers I talked to last week they said NS has been contacted by a company that wanted to open up a bungee jump off the bridge by Portsmouth but NS didn't would not even consider leasing, or renting the bridge for any use. NS did send a letter back to the company saying that they were not interested at this time and the bridge is not for sale lease or rent. The rails just sit as NS knows there will not be any development out there in the near future. Just very strange!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:04 am

Not really. NS seems content to hold onto properties now “just in case”. East end Peavine, Tipton to Kokomo, Saluda, are three I can think of right off top of my head. UP does same with Tennessee Pass. Even CSX starting to do - think Illinois sub. Like I said, property taxes are not that big of a deal. And it is their property, they will not let you bungee jump off an out of service bridge any more than they would an in service bridge.

The other option is to let it go like it’s old neighbor to the north, the B&O Ohio Div. Can’t swing a dead cat with hitting someone droning on about how much of a mistake it was for CSX to yank that line.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby midland sub » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 pm

Don’t deflect your guilt on not saving the B&O. Is the tears of the rail “enthusiast” community that bother you the most, or the regret you could be worshipped by said enthusiastically if you had.....?

Informer poll I already know the answer.... Who’s worst fan- Peavine or B&O St Louis to Grafton....
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:12 am

Both groups easy to tune out. Face it, B&O is dead and gone. Can’t change the past. But the Peavine is still there. Fun to stir the pot every so often. But with Peavine being real, there are those morons who think it’s their God given right to trespass to their hearts content. Those are the worst hands down. I guess a few prosecutions for trespassing could stop that.......
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:00 pm

Scraphauler your right on! The Peavine is alive and well. That is all that matters!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby chapmaja » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:50 am

scraphauler wrote:Not really. NS seems content to hold onto properties now “just in case”. East end Peavine, Tipton to Kokomo, Saluda, are three I can think of right off top of my head. UP does same with Tennessee Pass. Even CSX starting to do - think Illinois sub. Like I said, property taxes are not that big of a deal. And it is their property, they will not let you bungee jump off an out of service bridge any more than they would an in service bridge.

The other option is to let it go like it’s old neighbor to the north, the B&O Ohio Div. Can’t swing a dead cat with hitting someone droning on about how much of a mistake it was for CSX to yank that line.



Part of the reason they hold onto the line now very well could relate to what happens if they official abandon a line. Depending on the way the land for the railroad was gained, the ROW could revert back to the previous property owners rather than becoming available for a trail anyway.

As others have said, the taxation issue is a small piece of the puzzle.

Why else would a railroad hold onto a property? They never know what the future will hold. There have been cases where a potential rich mine site has been found near an abandoned ROW. The cost to transport materials from the mine to a customer or refiner limits the cost effectiveness of the site. If you keep the rail in place, even in a discontinued state, you have a substantially lowered costs for accessing this potential new customer. The CSX line across Northern Michigan (Ludington - Midland) is an example. There is a huge potash stash located near the old ROW, but it has been slow to get accessed in part because of the removal of the RR 30 years ago.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:04 pm

Happy New Year to everyone who has posted or has read posts on this Peavine thread. This is the second most watched read thread on this forum site. Kind of crazy as this is a short line rail that only goes what 78 miles east to west and it gets this much activity. Just shows railroad fans are interested in the Peavine.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:30 pm

I was following the CCET from satellite images with a friend who works for a short line company whose looking to acquire other lines (I can't say which one) and we noticed there are a handful or so of spurs still connected but not active. Are any of these non-active spurs potential customers?
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby arty flowers » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:25 pm

AARR, yes a new customer did spring up in the Batavia area in the form of a transload. They bring in perlite and marble dust.
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