Malinta Tower

[ELOpr]

Which railroad did the operators at Malinta work for, DT&I or N&W? When was the tower taken out of service.?

Thanks!

[Y@]

Malinta was a DT&I tower.

[MagnumForce]

Sure about that? The Cloverleaf was around nearly 20 years before the DT&I got to Malinta. Someone who should know said the tower was of Cloverleaf design can't verify that though. I will not say with certainty either way.

[MagnumForce]

Found this, appears to match the station which was an NKP station and still exists.

http://thecourier.typepad.com/alongther ... -ohio.html

and this

http://books.google.com/books?id=TISRZN ... io&f=false

And this which appears to be looking north on the DT&I and shows the tower in line and square with the Clover Leaf, not the DT&I which would again point to it being an NKP Tower.

http://northamericaninterlockings.com/i ... OH.jpg?401



Now who operated the tower at the end may be up for debate.

Again I am not sure at all with any positivity but I am 90% sure, just using logic and what I have been told by others.

[cr6903]

"...And this which appears to be looking north on the DT&I and shows the tower in line and square with the Clover Leaf, not the DT&I which would again point to it being an NKP Tower..."

I'm not disagreeing about Malinta, but I'd be careful about using this logic. In Lima, 'NS' Tower Faced the B&O, but it was a PRR Building, staffed by them (and PC and CR). It was "turned" ninety degrees from normal. Why? There were no switches on the PRR side, only the B&O/NKP, so it made it easier for the rods (interlocking was armstrong) to come out if it sat that way. It certainly looked like a PRR building.

I know this was a rare occurance, but I'm just saying things like this did happen.

Also, FWIW, Hamler was staffed by the B&O, KN by NKP, Sugar Street by PRR, and SJ by Erie, so I would Guess (strictly a guess) Malinta was staffed by NKP. Can't imagine the DT&I had too many block operators!

[JoJames]

Pretty sure it was Nickel Plate. Although after the Nickel Plate was gone I think the DT&I took over the tower.

[Y@]

The only thing I could find said it was a DT&I operated tower, but it did not say when... Could have been NKP before.

[MagnumForce]

"...And this which appears to be looking north on the DT&I and shows the tower in line and square with the Clover Leaf, not the DT&I which would again point to it being an NKP Tower..."

I'm not disagreeing about Malinta, but I'd be careful about using this logic. In Lima, 'NS' Tower Faced the B&O, but it was a PRR Building, staffed by them (and PC and CR). It was "turned" ninety degrees from normal. Why? There were no switches on the PRR side, only the B&O/NKP, so it made it easier for the rods (interlocking was armstrong) to come out if it sat that way. It certainly looked like a PRR building.

I know this was a rare occurance, but I'm just saying things like this did happen.

Also, FWIW, Hamler was staffed by the B&O, KN by NKP, Sugar Street by PRR, and SJ by Erie, so I would Guess (strictly a guess) Malinta was staffed by NKP. Can't imagine the DT&I had too many block operators!

Note how I said this was not a certainty.
There are always exceptions, but the logic I used is still true more often than not.

[MSchwiebert]

Operators were NKP/N&W. Not sure if/how long the tower remained open after the Clover Leaf was taken up, really not much of a reason for it to be once that was done.

[MagnumForce]

1980 DT&I timetable I have shows an automatic interlocking at the NW crossing in Malinta so the interlocking was made automatic before the Cloverleaf was pulled.

[Y@]

Can't always trust the internet. I was wrong, that's why. I just work here.

[CSX_CO]

...so it made it easier for the rods (interlocking was armstrong) to come out if it sat that way...

Forgive me was I go off topic, but as a serious student of towers, their function, operation, evolution, etc this term bugs me. There was no "Armstrong" interlocking. It was some form of mechanical interlocking. Union Switch and Signal, Saxby-Farmer, etc. made the interlocking bed. "Armstrong" is a bastardized term to refer to the levers in the tower when the interlocking may have been an electro-mechanical (which most were after the early 1900's when electricity became easier to supply), fully mechanical, etc. The fully mechanical interlockings also quickly fell out of favor at the complex interlocking plants where it would be nigh impossible to run rods to all the necessary equipment to ensure full interlocking capabilities. Fully mechanical interlockings were a operators worse enemy and a maintainers best friend. They required constant greasing, tweaking, cleaning, etc. A rats nest in a compensator could render a lever inoperable until the maintainer cleaned it out. Expansion and contraction over the run of the pipes required constant adjustment at bell cranks, etc. It didn't take long to realize that mechanical interlockings were an improvement over manual 'stop and flag' rules at crossings, but were not the end all be all of interlocking development. Hence why 'fully' mechanical interlockings quickly fell out of favor for electro-mechanical where a lever hooked to the interlocking bed, controlled electric switches to throw switches, signals, etc. Of course, once 'interlocking' could be achieved through circuits, then fully electric interlockings took over.

There were a lot of mechanical interlockings that were converted to electro-mechanical by simply cutting the rods and tying the levers into electrical contacts. Still retained the levers, but completely changed how the interlocking worked. This saved having to completely redo the interlocking logic, or install a new interlocking machine. Railroads have always been out to save a dime. Visit Haley Tower sometime. While you'll see levers not in use (which most beds had space for additional levers to deal with plant expansion), that interlocking machine is old enough to actual have levers for the 'derail' protection that was popular on the earliest of interlockings. The last lever you pull at Haley, when you line a route, would remove the derails from the route you're lining. Rather than try and change the interlocking bed to remove this redundant, and removed, feature, the railroads just kept that on the manipulation chart. As far as the interlocking bed knows, those levers are still connected to derails. We surmised that after going through the manipulation chart, the proceedures, etc.

You also had fully electric interlockings, electo-pnematic, etc. However, no such thing as an 'Armstrong' interlocking.

Ok, rant over. We now return you to the thread at hand...

From the last Tower show I was at, I vaguely remember seeing shots of Malinta taken by W. Mattes. It was taken only a couple weeks (maybe even days) before the tower closed. I want to say the operator was a NKP (N&W by that point) employee. If I have my stories straight, the operator there was 'on call' and would only come out when they were running a train over that portion of track. He'd get a call, go out, line the move, then lock up and go home. Probably mid to late 70's when this was going on. Probably was made an automatic interlocking or even a 'manual' type not long thereafter?

Practice Safe CSX

[MagnumForce]

The DT&I was pretty busy, far to busy for a manual operation hence why the timetable says it was an automatic interlocking. The Cloverleaf wasn't pulled till the 80's I think before NS though, not sure?

[StupidFlee​t]

The DT&I was pretty busy, far to busy for a manual operation hence why the timetable says it was an automatic interlocking. The Cloverleaf wasn't pulled till the 80's I think before NS though, not sure?

The N&W Delphos District was pulled in 1975.

[MagnumForce]

Toledo to Continental?

[JoJames]

Found pictures from Henry County History Book. Showing last train through McClure in 1975 and rails removed in 1977. Also the siding on the DT&I had a spring switch on each end and the south end would have been included in the interlocking with the Nickel Plate. That may explain why the timetable shows automatic interlocking for 1980.

[MagnumForce]

Thanks, this was why I said I wasn't sure. I was thinking 80 or 81. I should have just asked the Wife's Grandpa who lives next to the row at Pleasant Bend and has since the 60's.

[cr6903]

"... There was no "Armstrong" interlocking..."

Okay, so it was a mechanical interlocking. I figured if I used the term "armstrong" most people would assume what I was talking about, levers connected to pipes. If I would have said "mechanical", I would have gotten a question as to what that meant. Either way, when the lever was moved, it moved pipe and switch points-which I did quite a bit with this particular machine.

Just about everybody says "widecab", too. The cabs aren't any wider.

[CSX_CO]

Just about everybody says "widecab", too. The cabs aren't any wider.

Might be why railroaders on CSXcall them 'widebodies' since the nose is wider than a 'standard' cab configuration. "Widecab' seems to be a railfan centric designation just like "armstrong interlocking".

Practice Safe CSX

[CSX_CO]

The DT&I was pretty busy, far to busy for a manual operation hence why the timetable says it was an automatic interlocking. The Cloverleaf wasn't pulled till the 80's I think before NS though, not sure?

The N&W was the one with the 'manual' operation where they would call the operator out to line a N&W move. The rest of the time they could just set it to 'automatic' and let the DT&I 'have at it'. That or maybe they could set the DT&I signals to just show a 'proceed' and track warrants or some other authority authorized movements. I don't really remember the gory details. In the last instance, only time it would be 'stop' is if there was a problem with the spring switch or something like that.

Kingsland was the same way. They'd have an operator only when they expected a move on what is now the New Castle District. Move/moves would take place, operator would lock up, go home, and the EL was set to 'fleet' or whatever. IIRC if they wanted to use the X-overs there outside of when the operator was there, they'd have to call someone out from Huntington to open up the tower, line the move, reline the switches, and then lock up. I'm sure for the usual 8 hr penalty claim for having to do stuff like that outside of when the station was open.

Practice Safe CSX