Napoleon, Defiance and Western: The Definitive Thread

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Notch 8
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by Notch 8 »

The 5th is on a floating roadbed and that will not be addressed. The real issue on the 5th is the rail.. Its DONE and its coming apart and put ties and straighten things up and the breaks will continue... Put some good rail and ties in and pretend that you are on Perma-Frost ! and deal with the floating roadbed. The CSX still has issues with the Black Swamp, even as far west as Garrett IN has had to deal with the swamp. However I believe the Water Level to the north is the best route through this area.
I truly wish the new Management Good Luck and hope to see a turn around of the property as that a turn around would be better then an empty ROW. they don't need 20 mph track. they just need (2) parallel steel rails that are level and continuous and able to support the weight of a locomotive and loaded freight cars allowing them to pass over. 10 mph track would be a vast improvement. Since its Pioneer that might lift track from a different property and relay some of this track.. All the way through Defiance would be a great start... As I see it this Company only has 1 way to go ! Last Wednesday there were 3 derailments on the line

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AC60CW
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by AC60CW »

The Chicago line runs along the very southern edge of the Black Swamp. It doesn't run fully through it. Only occasionally will cross into the noted historical limits of the swamp.
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MSchwiebert
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

Agreed, a consistent tie & rail replacement program will do wonders for the line. As a reminder, the link shows the area covered by the Great Black Swamp back in the day.
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/image ... 54&img=619
Obviously, Defiance - West for the Wabash was more affected than Defiance - East. Defiance to Napoleon would be along the fringes (between the "sand farms" and the "dirt farms" as the Henry Co. folks like to say) which may be an issue in it's own right. The Wabash line in question, and the B&O Toledo Sub were the first two rail lines to cut through the western portion of the swamp (not sure how the NYC east of Toledo along the lake slots in time wise) and the B&O shows it can be done - but obviously the B&O has been more core to the B&O/Chessie/CSX than the Wabash was to the Wabash/N&W/NS - and saw more investment as a result.


Notch 8 wrote:The 5th is on a floating roadbed and that will not be addressed. The real issue on the 5th is the rail.. Its DONE and its coming apart and put ties and straighten things up and the breaks will continue... Put some good rail and ties in and pretend that you are on Perma-Frost ! and deal with the floating roadbed. The CSX still has issues with the Black Swamp, even as far west as Garrett IN has had to deal with the swamp. However I believe the Water Level to the north is the best route through this area.
I truly wish the new Management Good Luck and hope to see a turn around of the property as that a turn around would be better then an empty ROW. they don't need 20 mph track. they just need (2) parallel steel rails that are level and continuous and able to support the weight of a locomotive and loaded freight cars allowing them to pass over. 10 mph track would be a vast improvement. Since its Pioneer that might lift track from a different property and relay some of this track.. All the way through Defiance would be a great start... As I see it this Company only has 1 way to go ! Last Wednesday there were 3 derailments on the line

bdconrail29
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by bdconrail29 »

AC60CW wrote:The Chicago line runs along the very southern edge of the Black Swamp. It doesn't run fully through it. Only occasionally will cross into the noted historical limits of the swamp.
Wrong.
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AC60CW
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by AC60CW »

bdconrail29 wrote:
AC60CW wrote:The Chicago line runs along the very southern edge of the Black Swamp. It doesn't run fully through it. Only occasionally will cross into the noted historical limits of the swamp.
Wrong.

I got confused for a moment. Ottawa threw me. I had a brain fart and was thinking of the NKP for some reason.
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MagnumForce
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by MagnumForce »

OK, yes the Chicago line was built through the Eastern end of the swamp but I was speaking about things West of Toledo where the NS Chicago line is built far north of the swamp and the B&O and Wabash were built right through it. Kind of hard to compare the Chicago Line east of Toledo where it was built late and heavy and as a replacement for a line of the fifth districts vintage and that original line no longer exists.

To deny that the swamp doesn't play some effect isn't right though. Just ask JoJames if it affects his little bit of the B&O.
Last edited by MagnumForce on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jrgerber
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by jrgerber »

just a clarification Pioneer has owned its own power and does not lease locomotives, in fact they lease surplus locomotives to another companies. In the early 90s they were getting GP-16s, GP9s for between 30k-35k per locomotive, they paid between 65-80k for ex BNSF GP-20s.

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AC60CW
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by AC60CW »

PREX is the leasing division of the company. The way they work things is that they "lease" their power to the many lines that the parent company own.
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StupidFlee​t
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by StupidFlee​t »

cbehr91 wrote:
StupidFlee​t wrote: Do you even live in Ohio?
They said they were a Buckeye taxpayer. Twice.
Considering you were sitting in the same room as I was when I typed this, you could have said,
Hey Greg, They said they were a Buckeye taxpayer. Twice.
and I wouldn't have typed that. Thanks a lot Cory.
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(23:10:05) MagnumForce: All precautions were taken

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cbehr91
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by cbehr91 »

StupidFlee​t wrote:
cbehr91 wrote:
StupidFlee​t wrote: Do you even live in Ohio?
They said they were a Buckeye taxpayer. Twice.
Considering you were sitting in the same room as I was when I typed this, you could have said,
Hey Greg, They said they were a Buckeye taxpayer. Twice.
and I wouldn't have typed that. Thanks a lot Cory.
You're quite welcome. 8)

JoJames
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by JoJames »

Drainage and more drainage is the key to a good roadbed. Just like the first settelers in the Black Swamp region found out drainage is the key. CSX and the former MAW have let there drainage ditches along the wrightaway grow up in to stagnet brush covered swamps. Till this problem is corrected mud in roadbed will be a on going problem.

60Tonner
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by 60Tonner »

StupidFlee​t wrote:
60Tonner wrote:
AC60CW wrote:Getting the track level is one thing. Lets see if it stays that way. The bed (or lack there of) is a big question also.

Don't forget this was the Great Black Swamp and nothing stays above ground and level for long. As a Buckeye taxpayer I am tired of putting more taxpayer money into it. Scrap out the middle and use the ends to get to where the businesses are.

60Tonner

Do you even live in Ohio?
Only for 65 years.

Notch 8
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by Notch 8 »

Visit of the Michigan Southerns Railway Ohio Operations.. They have power !

http://www.fwarailfan.net/community/vie ... f=2&t=3153

And its going to be operated as a continous route, more work has been done to the track in 2 days than the previous 10 years... not quite but you get the point !

Mike

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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by telus6429 »

it may a good to see progress on the railroad. it maybe good for the Economy in the region.
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MagnumForce
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by MagnumForce »

NS power on the MAW, there is a prototype for everything now.

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MagnumForce
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by MagnumForce »

AC60CW wrote:
bdconrail29 wrote:
AC60CW wrote:The Chicago line runs along the very southern edge of the Black Swamp. It doesn't run fully through it. Only occasionally will cross into the noted historical limits of the swamp.
Wrong.

I got confused for a moment. Ottawa threw me. I had a brain fart and was thinking of the NKP for some reason.
The NKP is entirely in the swamp from about Miller City to New Haven.

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AC60CW
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by AC60CW »

MagnumForce wrote:NS power on the MAW, there is a prototype for everything now.
Was it still NW locos when they went to NS way back? Don't know much about the line around that time. I have seen a few pictures with NW locos. That's all.
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MSchwiebert
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

I've got some Black & White shots at home of when the first IHRC locomotive (a C420 Alco) was stored in the Defiance yard awaiting the start of IHRC operations. The loco that the NS was using that day for their operations was a former Southern GP38-2 in NS paint.
AC60CW wrote:
MagnumForce wrote:NS power on the MAW, there is a prototype for everything now.
Was it still NW locos when they went to NS way back? Don't know much about the line around that time. I have seen a few pictures with NW locos. That's all.

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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by Barney »

A NS locomotive went to Cecil yesterday and pulled some cars back to Woodburn. There are some cars that are still setting west of Cecil. I assume they are derailed.

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AARR
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Re: Michigan Southern Defiance Operations: The Beginning

Unread post by AARR »

Barney wrote:A NS locomotive went to Cecil yesterday and pulled some cars back to Woodburn. There are some cars that are still setting west of Cecil. I assume they are derailed.
Is the track on this segment as bad as it is to Napoleon? If yes, I am surprised NS would send an engine over it.
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