PRR Carrothers Secondary

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PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:47 pm

Looking for information on when the Pennsy line that ran out of Toledo was abandoned south (east) of Tiffin. I know the NOW still operates the Tiffin-Woodville portion and CSX runs out to Woodville as well. Also, when did the NOW take over their portion?
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby redside20 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:03 pm

Y@ wrote:Looking for information on when the Pennsy line that ran out of Toledo was abandoned south (east) of Tiffin. I know the NOW still operates the Tiffin-Woodville portion and CSX runs out to Woodville as well. Also, when did the NOW take over their portion?


Conrail last ran a train over this portion and the rest of the secondary in 1984 and embargoed the line shortly after that. Conrail would run at least 3-5 trains a day plus an NS/NW coal train on occasion(how do I know because I seen it with my own eyes in Tiffin Oh when I was a kid) from Mansfield/Canton to Toledo. The reason for the abandonment is because Conrail was sick of utilizing trackage rights on NS from Bucyrus to Carrothers and rear end collision with an NS train in the late 70's/early 80s put plans for the embargo in motion. Prior to this, Pennsy abandoned the portion from Toledo Junction( west of Mansfield) to Carrothers in the 60's, then abandoned the portion between Carrothers to Tiffin in 86 or 87 and then sold the rest to Indiana Hi Rail in 1989 or 90. The NOW then promptly took over the late 90's
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:26 pm

redside20 wrote:
Y@ wrote:Looking for information on when the Pennsy line that ran out of Toledo was abandoned south (east) of Tiffin. I know the NOW still operates the Tiffin-Woodville portion and CSX runs out to Woodville as well. Also, when did the NOW take over their portion?


Conrail last ran a train over this portion and the rest of the secondary in 1984 and embargoed the line shortly after that. Conrail would run at least 3-5 trains a day plus an NS/NW coal train on occasion(how do I know because I seen it with my own eyes in Tiffin Oh when I was a kid) from Mansfield/Canton to Toledo. The reason for the abandonment is because Conrail was sick of utilizing trackage rights on NS from Bucyrus to Carrothers and rear end collision with an NS train in the late 70's/early 80s put plans for the embargo in motion. Prior to this, Pennsy abandoned the portion from Toledo Junction( west of Mansfield) to Carrothers in the 60's, then abandoned the portion between Carrothers to Tiffin in 86 or 87 and then sold the rest to Indiana Hi Rail in 1989 or 90. The NOW then promptly took over the late 90's


Thanks Lukas.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby cbehr91 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:30 pm

The only other thing I have to add is that for a few years Tiffin Tower was the NOW dispatcher's office. And actually the line was timetable north/south. :wink:
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:45 pm

cbehr91 wrote:The only other thing I have to add is that for a few years Tiffin Tower was the NOW dispatcher's office. And actually the line was timetable north/south. :wink:


Thanks Corey, didn't know if it was N/S or E/W.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby cbehr91 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Y@ wrote:Thanks Corey, didn't know if it was N/S or E/W.

Don't know who that is but I'm Cory. :lol:
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:05 pm

cbehr91 wrote:
Y@ wrote:Thanks Corey, didn't know if it was N/S or E/W.

Don't know who that is but I'm Cory. :lol:


darn it... Haha
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby ssnk79 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:08 pm

Any info on the Ex-PRR yard in toledo? I drive by it almost everyday. Like when they took the yard out? I can see that the sanding tower still there.

Any ideas what CSX gonna do with it?
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:11 pm

ssnk79 wrote:Any info on the Ex-PRR yard in toledo? I drive by it almost everyday. Like when they took the yard out? I can see that the sanding tower still there.

Any ideas what CSX gonna do with it?
Jim


NS owns it and stores autoracks in it.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby cr6903 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:21 pm

Actually, the main reason for the downgrade would be redundant trackage. Any Toledo-bound freight West out of Conway could run the C&P from Alliance to Cleveland instead, and Vice-versa. The Carrothers-Toledo trackage was in very poor condition in Conrail's infancy (some slow orders as low as 5 mph) causing Crestline crews to frequently use over 12 hours to make the run to Toledo.
I'll bet Tiffin was a neat place when all three lines were there, even with the two (now gone) in bad shape.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby MSchwiebert » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:51 pm

I'll have to check the next time I'm over that way, but I believe that CSX owns the section "north" of Walbridge to where it joins in with the Miami Cut/line that goes north of Stanley Tower. (At least the 'no tresspassing' signs are CSX) As for what they'll do with it - probably the same that Conrail & Penn Central did with it - not much.

Y@ wrote:
ssnk79 wrote:Any info on the Ex-PRR yard in toledo? I drive by it almost everyday. Like when they took the yard out? I can see that the sanding tower still there.

Any ideas what CSX gonna do with it?
Jim


NS owns it and stores autoracks in it.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby redside20 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:02 pm

cr6903 wrote:Actually, the main reason for the downgrade would be redundant trackage. Any Toledo-bound freight West out of Conway could run the C&P from Alliance to Cleveland instead, and Vice-versa. The Carrothers-Toledo trackage was in very poor condition in Conrail's infancy (some slow orders as low as 5 mph) causing Crestline crews to frequently use over 12 hours to make the run to Toledo.
I'll bet Tiffin was a neat place when all three lines were there, even with the two (now gone) in bad shape.


I remember the track layout of the Carrothers Secondary. Back when I remembered it, it was double track from Carrothers to Bloomville, a distance of about 10, and then single track into Tiffin. Then back to double track on the north side of Tiffin to just south of Bettsville, single from Bettsville to Gibsonburg and then double track all the way into Walbridge. From what I gather, there had been double track from Bettsville to Gibsonburg as well
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby redside20 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:16 pm

With companies like this that keep business afloat for the NOW, Part of the Carrothers Secondary lives on
http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/ ... l?nav=5003
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby cbehr91 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:22 pm

redside20 wrote:Then back to double track on the north side of Tiffin

This point was known as Coleman, near 2nd Ave in Tiffin. It was controlled from the CTC panel in Tiffin tower.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Y@ » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:29 pm

You guys are right, CSX does own the Outer Yard. NS just stores cars in it.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby cr6903 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:41 pm

Redside, are you familiar with the block limits "Pen" and "Ink" on the Carrothers Secondary, or were they gone by the time you remember? Someone on the Pennsylvania must have had a sense of humor. Some of their names are a bit odd, and these two were together on the secondary.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby ssnk79 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:22 am

Ahh ok, Thanks Guys. I saw auto cars there last spring but there haven't been anything there since. I thought it was odd that it CSX owned but the only way to get to it is on NS tracks even though the south side of the old yard is right next to CSX. I hope that One day it would get used again, railroad related but doubt it, Who and when downgraded it from a yard to storage tracks? When did the roundhouse get taken down also?
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby redside20 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:47 pm

cr6903 wrote:Redside, are you familiar with the block limits "Pen" and "Ink" on the Carrothers Secondary, or were they gone by the time you remember? Someone on the Pennsylvania must have had a sense of humor. Some of their names are a bit odd, and these two were together on the secondary.


Yes I am familiar with Ink because it's also referred to as Swander as place name between Bloomville and Tiffin.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Standard Railfan » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:26 am

There is a fair amount of information about the Carrothers Secondary in the Robert Yanosey book "Pennsylvania Railroad Facilities in Color Volume 13". The discussion includes a number of photos.
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Re: PRR Carrothers Secondary

Unread postby Toppysager » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:04 pm

As I understand it the PRR would of had to of crossed the Maumee River at some point. I believe the tracks ran parallel to the river on its East side before crossing over somewhere near downtown, but does anyone have a specific location for the former bridge? If so, does anyone have a date? 1970s has been vaguely referenced as the demise of PRR/PC operations in that area in other forums, so I was wondering if anyone had any precise dates.

Additionally, historic timetables have the AA crossing the 'PRR' at Manhatten Jct. Would the PRR have used its own trackage here or executed trackage rights on another railroad? I understand there used to be PRR signals in Toledo, and I assume this is where.


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