bdconrail29 wrote:NS does maintenance and NS dispatches it. I'm not sure why NS needs to pay anyone since at merger time they were granted trackage rights for so many trains.
Trackage rights are not free. The NS pays someone to run those trains.
Just so we're clear, you don't know the answer either? (Regarding trackage rights agreements/fees/etc.). Thanks.
Trackage rights usually aren't free though... that's a general truism. Why would CSX be "kind" enough to let NS run trains on their track without some kind of fee?
More likely than not a condition of the split had a clause for price per train or some other formula (it could be miles or maybe per day/week/month of exercising the rights). There could even have been a clause for renegotiation in the future if the rights went unused for X period of time. I am 95% sure they have to pay something to run the trains.
Celebrating Over 3800 Posts in HD
This updated Signature Brought To YOU By The One The Only MQT3001!
NS8401, Online, At Trackside And On Your Side
The person asked specifically what the agreement is.
After reading all of the posts pertaining to that question, the conclusion is that...NOBODY knows. Although I would like to know, I'm not sure if we ever will.
bdconrail29 wrote:The person asked specifically what the agreement is.
After reading all of the posts pertaining to that question, the conclusion is that...NOBODY knows. Although I would like to know, I'm not sure if we ever will.
But some of us who have heard how this works or might know something do have some educated guesses... that's better than nothing. We probably will never know it, you're right, that proprietary.
Celebrating Over 3800 Posts in HD
This updated Signature Brought To YOU By The One The Only MQT3001!
NS8401, Online, At Trackside And On Your Side
Track gang was working yesterday in Middlepoint Ohio area inserting ties, tamping and grading the ballast. Most of the pickup trucks had Norfolk Southern logos on them.
Yes, the MOW gang had about 7-8 pieces of equipment and parked it in Van Wert last night on the old Cincinnati Northern trackage just north of the diamond to Center St. Went over by Middle Point and saw what you are reporting. Wonder if they will continue west through Van Wert and Convoy and such. It's no wonder we haven't seen many NS trains through Van Wert in the last so many days. Looks like they're still gearing up for the NS run throughs.
I went to Van Wert today, and also saw the track equipment on the CN. Then I drove west of VW to check out track and found two machines working west of Convoy near mentser church rd. CFE pickup was with them.
bdconrail29 wrote:NS does maintenance and NS dispatches it. I'm not sure why NS needs to pay anyone since at merger time they were granted trackage rights for so many trains.
Trackage rights are not free. The NS pays someone to run those trains.
Just so we're clear, you don't know the answer either? (Regarding trackage rights agreements/fees/etc.). Thanks.
I know that the NS is paying someone to run those trains. I know your statement thinking the NS didn't need to pay anyone to run those trains was wrong.
In my experience, the only time I have ever seen Trackage Rights that do not have a user fee and re-negotiation time for that fee, are trackage rights that were granted by the STB as part of a board-ordered sale or lease. The only other time I've seen operation over another railroad as a habit without paying a trackage rights fee is under a "railroad convenience" situation.
I would be shocked if NS isn't paying G&W (as the current operator) a pretty penny for those trains, and that at least a part of that money filters to CSX as part of lease payments. Just my observation, having dealt with the parties involved, and knowing the industry.
Come on man think about what you said... If NS wasn't paying trackage right fees we wouldn't be having this discussion. Six NS trains a day would be moving over the line each and everyday.....
NS doesn't maintain the line that's G&W's responsibility. If NS paid for maintaining the line, RA-G&W would never have let it slide down into miles of 10 mph slow orders. I believe this is the second time NS has directly chipped in on maintain the line (not counting the section around Fort Wayne they've been using or Colsan-Bucyrus). First was back 2008-'09 ish when NS was looking into doing the same thing before the recession hit. I believe Atlas was the contractor on that work. NS doing the work themselves this time I presume is more out of sense of urgency than anything else. The thing to remember is that NS is doing this on their dime for their own good. Going to G&W and asking to them to raise the track speeds for free was going to get them nowhere.
Here's my take on the dispatching and I'm not privy to anything on how or why. NS already owned Tolleston to Warsaw before the split so they already dispatched it. I'm going to presume with NS getting east end of the Fort Wayne line it was more of an agreement with CSX that it made better sense to just continue to let the old Conrail dispatcher position keep it even though it was going to NS. CSX obviously never factored the line into it's future at that point so why not let NS dispatch it on their dime?
bdconrail29 wrote:NS does maintenance and NS dispatches it. I'm not sure why NS needs to pay anyone since at merger time they were granted trackage rights for so many trains.
Not sure what kind of tamper is being used but the biggest problem is when the tamper clamps onto the rail and makes its raise if ties are frozen down it will pull spikes out of the ties leaving a track out of gage.
1/19/15. EB LIFW at 5:55AM with NS 9823/another NS unit/CORP 4024 hauling 34 cars through Van Wert. Train had 11 loaded steel flats: LRS and SSW among others upfront; 1 gon, 12 box cars: BR, CP among others and 10 covered hoppers bringing up the rear BNGX and assorted among them.
Jointed rail will break as well...especially at the fishplates. It just may make it a bit easier to fix as now you just need to rebolt instead of drill for bolts...
CG Tower
h2466 wrote:
CSX_CO wrote:
ELwillie wrote:Track gang was working yesterday in Middlepoint Ohio area inserting ties, tamping and grading the ballast.
In this weather? I hope they like changing broken rails then too.
How will the weather create a broken rail?, if the rail is not supported properly its logical that it would lead to a broke rail. The temperature needed to make the rail brittle would be hard to attain with out using a heat treat furnace, and quench tank (I teach Metallurgy). The track work had to be approved by someone whom is paid for their expertise, and was being over seen by I assume GW and NS supervisors. In reporting the track work, I did not realize it would lead to a debate of atlas's ,GW or NS incompetence of track repair. I am happy to see any work done on this line, hopefully it will help the old Pennsy's survival.
