New connection near Vermilion

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New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby Bellevue_Guy » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:04 pm

Saw a thread on TO about a new connection that's being built by NS between the Chicago Line and the NKP west of the existing connection near Vermilion. However, the OP made things confusing by stating that EB Chicago Line traffic would have access to the WB NKP (suggesting a 180 degree turn), but then also said that WB traffic on the NKP would have access to the Chicago Line......and those two moves are not compatible for one connection. So I'm assuming that he meant to say eastbound traffic on the NKP would have access to the (westbound) Chicago Line

So if it is the 180 degree loop connection, that would give EB traffic on the Chicago Line a third option for getting to Bellevue, and finally one that comes in from the direction the yard is best laid out for.

Anyone know more about this?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:58 pm

The only connection that would make any sense at all to me would be WB NKP to WB Chicago Line. However, I have seen plenty of moves over the years where a train went WB on the NKP west of GC and then went back east up the connection on the Chicago Line back to CP 216. So I don't know.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby Grumpy » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:02 pm

Not real sure what you mean by WB NKP. In the case of the NKP, WB and EB are the
same track. It is, and was a single track railroad.

Now the Chicago Line Main, or ex NYC, we have Trk 1 and Trk 2.

The NKP connection to the Chicago line splits to the north just east of Coen Rd west of Vermilion.
It connects to the the Chicago line Trk 2 or EB NYC.

If a WB Chicago line train is to take the NKP to Bellvue, It must be WB on the Trk 2 Chicago line.

This connection is quite visible on BING Maps. It is just west of Vermilion and east of Coen Rd. The distance
between The NYC and NKP at this point is very close.

If you go to the location on Coen Rd, the turnout on the NKP is but 50 ft or so east of Coen Rd.
Haveing been to the location several times, all I've seen is traffic on the Chicago Line.
No luck catching any traffic on the NKP or the connection.

-AL
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:46 am

No I think you misunderstood. We're familiar with the existing layout at Vermilion. When we say WB NKP we mean going westbound on the NKP. To describe a connection you have to also mention direction. So for example WB NKP to WB Chicago Line simply means the connection is oriented such that a westbound on the NKP can go through the connection to go WB on the Chicago Line. Right now it is EB NKP to EB Chicago Line or WB Chicago Line to WB NKP depending on direction.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby Bellevue_Guy » Fri May 13, 2016 7:35 pm

bdconrail29 wrote:The only connection that would make any sense at all to me would be WB NKP to WB Chicago Line.


After driving by there today and seeing what the construction looks like so far, it looks like this is what they are doing. Dirt has been moved immediately east of the Risden Rd/NYC crossing and there's a line of stakes that angles off from there to the southeast across the field. As for the NKP side, no signs of construction are visible when looking east from from the Risden Rd crossing, while over at the Coen Rd crossing if you look west there's a bunch of little orange survey flags down the north side of the ROW and also big bundle of ties visible a couple hundred yards or so down the line.

So this connection will be a mirror image to the existing one, essentially creating a large pair of crossovers between the two parallel lines.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby justin_gram » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:04 am

According to this video it looks like this new connector track is mostly in place, just not yet connected to the Chicago Line or NKP. You can see that this new crossing signal was moved farther from the tracks, giving room for the connection.

https://youtu.be/oZLPLzfxEDU




So it looks like the connection goes southeast from the Chicago Line at this point: https://www.google.com/maps/place/41%C2 ... -82.406483

BTW, this thread could probably be merged with this one: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=34616
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bluestreak81 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:05 pm

Does this mean more traffic may be traveling on the NKP through western Cleveland suburbs?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:53 am

bluestreak81 wrote:Does this mean more traffic may be traveling on the NKP through western Cleveland suburbs?


The vans 23/22k and 205/206 will use this connection instead of Cleveland.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby chriiis » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:53 am

Is the Vermillion connection work timed to coincide with the bridge work on the Portageville trestle in western New York State (finally beefing up the D&H to 286k standards)?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby Bellevue_Guy » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:16 pm

Today I drove down Risden Rd and saw something kind of odd.....that new crossing signal shown in the video a few posts up is now laying in the ditch in the southwest corner of the crossing. No idea what happened to it.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby cbehr91 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:53 pm

bluestreak81 wrote:Does this mean more traffic may be traveling on the NKP through western Cleveland suburbs?

The idea is to bypass running through Rockport Yard and the Cloggsville Line and connection.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bluestreak81 » Thu May 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Any updates as to when the connection will be complete?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby Super Chief » Tue May 30, 2017 5:52 am

Can't give you a date but the NS track foreman who just returned to Michigan said his crews were done with it. A contractor is scheduled to finish it?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:24 pm

I'll be up there Saturday and get an update. I'll be railfanning all day during the Fish Festival.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:05 pm

No progress since April on the connection but the CP's are installed. Classic traffic as I had 20 from 11:30 to 4:30. Awesome.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bluestreak81 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:00 pm

Last update on this thread in June was that the EB Chicago onto the EB NKP connector had not yet been connected. Has there been any updates on this connector?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:57 pm

bluestreak81 wrote:Last update on this thread in June was that the EB Chicago onto the EB NKP connector had not yet been connected. Has there been any updates on this connector?


I’ll let you know. I’ll be at Vermilion in the next week to railfan.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby chapmaja » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:32 am

I am from Michigan, so I'm not exactly up this location. Looking at the Google maps image it does appear the connection in question is complete.

In the discussion it seems people were questioning the direction of travel for trains using this connection. To me it seems pretty simple, based on the discussion being had, and which track is which.

The connection appears to be for WB trains to connect to the NKP line. For this to happen, trains using the connection going west on the NKP would be required to use the crossover east of town to get on the "wrong" main, the use the connection to the NKP. Trains going EB to EB would simple use the connection.

The question I have is what does this due for the future of the NKP line east of Vermilion? I assume, looking at the maps, the line itself is not in danger of losing traffic. This appears to be more of a move to get higher priority traffic off the NKP and onto a line that can better handled higher priority traffic.
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby DaveO » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:34 am

chapmaja wrote:I am from Michigan, so I'm not exactly up this location. Looking at the Google maps image it does appear the connection in question is complete.

In the discussion it seems people were questioning the direction of travel for trains using this connection. To me it seems pretty simple, based on the discussion being had, and which track is which.

The connection appears to be for WB trains to connect to the NKP line. For this to happen, trains using the connection going west on the NKP would be required to use the crossover east of town to get on the "wrong" main, the use the connection to the NKP. Trains going EB to EB would simple use the connection.

The question I have is what does this due for the future of the NKP line east of Vermilion? I assume, looking at the maps, the line itself is not in danger of losing traffic. This appears to be more of a move to get higher priority traffic off the NKP and onto a line that can better handled higher priority traffic.


What you are seeing is the connection built circa 1999. The newest google image is from October 2015 before construction started.
This new connection will allow eastbound trains on the Chicago Line to bypass some Cleveland congestion by using the NKP line.

The plan is to route more trains on the NKP east of Vermillion, not fewer. The question is, will the work ever be completed?
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Re: New connection near Vermilion

Unread postby bdconrail29 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:33 pm

bluestreak81 wrote:Last update on this thread in June was that the EB Chicago onto the EB NKP connector had not yet been connected. Has there been any updates on this connector?


I was there today and there is absolutely ZERO progress since June on the connection.
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