CP to Buy KCS

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AARR
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Because us railfans like cabooses :D
ns8401 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:40 pm
AARR wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:57 pm
Does anyone think the merged company might bring back cabooses
Why would they do that?
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Re: CP/KCS

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ns8401 wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 pm
Doktor No wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:20 pm
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/clas ... aign=23857
Look at the map of the unified CPKC. What is missing? What am I missing? The finish to the route around The Great Lakes.
I know this is a dead horse but beat it around a bit. He won't complain much.
Even if they get the PM it still requires trackage rights Porter to Chicago. Plus there is more freight. They should have tried for the Michigan Line when Conrail sold the west end to Amtrak in the early to mid 80’s. Not much online business and only Amtrak to work around and it was double track at that time.
Kzo to Porter was sold by PC to Amtrak in 1976. Conrail had passed on acquiring it. It had been single tracked since the early '60s at least.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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GP30M4216 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:49 am
GP30M4216 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:45 am
Makes you wonder how strategic it was that CP purchased the remaining percentage of the Detroit-Windsor MC rail tunnel last year....

Who owns the connecting trackage between CP Lou and CP Michigan Ave in Dearborn? Conrail, or CP?
Strategic for the city of Detroit maybe, they need the cash.
Are you thinking of the Detroit-Windsor auto tunnel? The city of Detroit didn’t, and I don’t believe ever had, an interest in the rail tunnel. CP acquired the remaining percentage from the Ontario Pension Fund as noted in the press release below.

https://www.cpr.ca/en/media/cp-to-acqui ... ail-tunnel
I thought the city of Detroit had a stake in both. I know they sold their stake in the car tunnel around the time they were in bankruptcy.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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I have a question here guys that smarter people than me may be able to answer. I remember in the early 2000s (can't remember what year at the moment) when I was attending WMU in Kalamazoo, I got to know the Contrail BO Tower operator a bit. I remember him telling me CP was getting ready to start running on the Conrail Michigan Line between Detroit and Kalamazoo. Don't remember the plan at that time whether the trains were going to run straight through onto Amtrak or divert South to Elkhart. Anyway, I distinctly remember talking with him several times about it over the course of several months. I assumed he was a reliable source at the time and looked forward to the possibility. A month or two ago I found a Trains magazine that had a short paragraph saying the same thing, so apparently this was really going to happen, but of course never did.

Now here is my question. A lot has changed since then, but would the purchase of the Michigan Line (I think MDOT owns Detroit to Kzoo and Amtrak owns the rest), be even a remote possibility? There are definitely more cons than pros, among which would be a very premium price to purchase I assume (even "if" MDOT and Amtrak would sell), Amtrak trains to contend with, potential passing sidings to extend, and somewhere near the Michigan/Indiana border no height clearance for double stack trains I have heard. The only pro I think would be a true route between Detroit and Chicago and no trackage rights over anyone (unless there would be somewhere in Chicago).

One of the other things I wonder is, it would seem that the CP-KCS merger would give clear advantage over the other class 1's in terms of uniting Mexico, the U.S., and Canada under one system, if I were NS, I would think it will be very possible that NS will begin dragging their feet and will become less enthusiastic about running CP trains on their mainline as they do now, because of this advantage, thus giving more reason for CP to relocate elsewhere. I was watching the Elkhart railcam yesterday and NS held a EB CP train for several hours in Elkhart until he was allowed to go East and it was not due to a crew change I do not believe. Very interesting.

Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on these subjects.

Thanks.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

Unread post by ~Z~ »

David - the original talks that I recall were to have CP running on NS between Detroit and Kalamazoo, then turning south to Elkhart and then running west from there. Whether they take Amtrak across Michigan to Porter, or use CSX to Porter, still get to deal with NS at that point, unless they can do what Doktor No mentioned to get across at Porter.
CP has a route already into Chicago from the northwest.. i just don't see them buying a line to add additional routes into Chicago at this point.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Hi Zack. Man, I can't believe that I did not remember that Amtrak comes on at Porter, so you still have the same problem, trackage rights on NS at that point. For some reason I was thinking Amtrak had their own line all the way into Chicago. Didn't think that one through - sorry about that. See, there was a reason why I prefaced my statements above with "people smarter than me", and in this case, pretty much everyone is smarter than me - this is embarrassing. Well...everyone have a good laugh on me, (or at me), its free. :D

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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David Lang wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:18 am
Hi Zack. Man, I can't believe that I did not remember that Amtrak comes on at Porter, so you still have the same problem, trackage rights on NS at that point. For some reason I was thinking Amtrak had their own line all the way into Chicago. Didn't think that one through - sorry about that. See, there was a reason why I prefaced my statements above with "people smarter than me", and in this case, pretty much everyone is smarter than me - this is embarrassing. Well...everyone have a good laugh on me, (or at me), its free. :D

David Lang
Points for effort. The MC did go across at Porter originally.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Man, I am hoping this doesn't get approved! Even less railroads! Too few of the Class 1s! Gosh, I never even got the KCS "Business Train" with the F-units! What will happen to that? Will they do one last tour? I like how Mike Haverty brought back "Southern Belle" colors just like the famous "Warbonnet"colors were on ATSF! I have to read more about this story! I once rode Panama Canal Railway® in 2009 with my late Dad (RCJ I)! Is this included? This will be too big of a railroad! UP should have something to say! :!: :!: :!: :!:
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Saturnalia wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:47 am
There is only one legitimate option: buy the Pere Marquette.
Why buy the PM when you can rent space from Watco or G&W after they take over?

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Man, I would to see a do-nothing company like G&W get the PM. Way too much potential business to piss away with no marketing and running the railroad into the ground like they did with MQT. Now, if someone like LSRC was to get it, on the other hand...
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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SD80MAC wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:47 pm
Man, I would to see a do-nothing company like G&W get the PM. Way too much potential business to piss away with no marketing and running the railroad into the ground like they did with MQT. Now, if someone like LSRC was to get it, on the other hand...
Lake state would no doubt take a shot at leasing it at the very least.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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LSRC getting the PM would be a best outcome, even better than CP-KC buying it. Look at what they’ve done north of Plymouth since they took that over - they have loaded autoracks out of Flint, an event we’d never thought we’d ever see again on that line since 1999. Regarding Plymouth-Porter: It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
LSRC getting the PM would be a best outcome, even better than CP-KC buying it. Look at what they’ve done north of Plymouth since they took that over - they have loaded autoracks out of Flint, an event we’d never thought we’d ever see again on that line since 1999. Regarding Plymouth-Porter: It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
The autoracks thing sounds like CN rejecting the business and somebody being desperate to move a lot of vehicles at once. It’s interesting to note that it flows both ways though.

I doubt the coal business is single handed keeping it the line in the fold. There must be some other reasons.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
...It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
Nothing concrete, But J.H. Campbell has been running far less trains lately
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Talk wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:35 am
Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
...It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
Nothing concrete, But J.H. Campbell has been running far less trains lately
The plant is (according to everything I can find on Google) the plant is good to run until 2042-ish timeframe. Coal volumes are projected to increase the next 6-12 months per reports by WSJ due to businesses returning to near-normal volumes including utility consumption.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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Talk wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:35 am
Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
...It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
Nothing concrete, But J.H. Campbell has been running far less trains lately
Wasn’t a harsh winter, so I’m sure they used less of their stockpile than they were expecting.
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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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I was part of a tour of the Campbell plant several years ago. Unit 3 which is the largest, is a base plant for the Midwest power system, it runs full power 24/365. Unit 2 is a variable load plant dialed up and down to meet the needs. Unit 1 is the smallest and is only run if needed. It also is the one set up to burn eastern coal.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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AARR wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:12 am
I wonder what paint scheme they'll apply to the engines and how long before they do heritage units :wink:
Beavers would look much better on them F40s.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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ns8401 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:34 am
Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
LSRC getting the PM would be a best outcome, even better than CP-KC buying it. Look at what they’ve done north of Plymouth since they took that over - they have loaded autoracks out of Flint, an event we’d never thought we’d ever see again on that line since 1999. Regarding Plymouth-Porter: It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
The autoracks thing sounds like CN rejecting the business and somebody being desperate to move a lot of vehicles at once. It’s interesting to note that it flows both ways though.

I doubt the coal business is single handed keeping it the line in the fold. There must be some other reasons.
The autoracks is CSX’s doing due to CN not wanting to short haul cars. Def benefits LSRC for sure.

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Re: CP to Buy KCS

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:41 am
ns8401 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:34 am
Racer wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:16 pm
LSRC getting the PM would be a best outcome, even better than CP-KC buying it. Look at what they’ve done north of Plymouth since they took that over - they have loaded autoracks out of Flint, an event we’d never thought we’d ever see again on that line since 1999. Regarding Plymouth-Porter: It’s only a matter of time with CSX once West Olive reduces their coal consumption down the road for who’s the next operator to step in.
The autoracks thing sounds like CN rejecting the business and somebody being desperate to move a lot of vehicles at once. It’s interesting to note that it flows both ways though.

I doubt the coal business is single handed keeping it the line in the fold. There must be some other reasons.
The autoracks is CSX’s doing due to CN not wanting to short haul cars. Def benefits LSRC for sure.
Precisely where I was going with that.
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