Page 1 of 9
CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:34 am
by Talk
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:04 am
by atrainguy60
"The board of Kansas City Southern has approved the deal which has also received the regulatory nod from the US Surface Transportation Board."
https://seekingalpha.com/amp/news/36746 ... 25-billion
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 am
by DaveO
Not sure how the STB has consented given that there is no pending filing regarding this at the STB.
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:15 am
by Chip
Big if true
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:21 am
by GTW Dude
Save your copy’s of your next Trains mag this could mean that CP becomes the largest class 1 in North America making history. Although, I’d be curious as to if a new name or paint scheme would be used at all should the merger go through Just a thought though.
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:45 am
by Saturnalia
DaveO wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 am
Not sure how the STB has consented given that there is no pending filing regarding this at the STB.
That part was false. Supposedly a filing has been made but won’t be opened by the STB until tomorrow because they work bankers hours only!
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:47 am
by Saturnalia
Alright, time to stir the pot. CP-KCS is like CN-IC. The last missing piece? Detroit to ChicagoLand. There is only one legitimate option: buy the Pere Marquette.
However, with the direct Mexican access, I bet the price from CSX just went up a lot.
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:15 pm
by DaveO
Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:45 am
DaveO wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 am
Not sure how the STB has consented given that there is no pending filing regarding this at the STB.
That part was false. Supposedly a filing has been made but won’t be opened by the STB until tomorrow because they work bankers hours only!
There is also the issue of Security and Exchange Commission disclosure requirements. That should happen before such a filing occurs.
edit: Railway Age has a nice article
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/clas ... road-cpkc/
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:49 pm
by ns8401
Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:47 am
Alright, time to stir the pot. CP-KCS is like CN-IC. The last missing piece? Detroit to ChicagoLand. There is only one legitimate option: buy the Pere Marquette.
However, with the direct Mexican access, I bet the price from CSX just went up a lot.
They go all the way to the bottom of Mexico. It’s not like the CN-IC at all.
CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:20 pm
by Doktor No
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/clas ... aign=23857
Look at the map of the unified CPKC. What is missing? What am I missing? The finish to the route around The Great Lakes.
I know this is a dead horse but beat it around a bit. He won't complain much.
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:40 pm
by ns8401
The new railroad will be called “Canadian Pacific Kansas City”.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:42 pm
by KenB
Don't forget. This is a propsal. NS, UP, BNSF, CN , FWW, SO will all weigh in on this.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:11 pm
by ns8401
KenB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:42 pm
Don't forget. This is a propsal. NS, UP, BNSF, CN , FWW, SO will all weigh in on this.
It’ll go through most likely. The conflicts are nearly non existent. It’ll get folks thinking responsive mergers though.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 pm
by ns8401
Even if they get the PM it still requires trackage rights Porter to Chicago. Plus there is more freight. They should have tried for the Michigan Line when Conrail sold the west end to Amtrak in the early to mid 80’s. Not much online business and only Amtrak to work around and it was double track at that time.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:54 pm
by Chip
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:11 pm
KenB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:42 pm
Don't forget. This is a propsal. NS, UP, BNSF, CN , FWW, SO will all weigh in on this.
It’ll go through most likely. The conflicts are nearly non existent. It’ll get folks thinking responsive mergers though.
Who else would/could merge? Maybe CN/NS or CN/CSX but I can't think of anything else that makes a ton of sense.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:56 pm
by atrainguy60
Chip wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:54 pm
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:11 pm
KenB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:42 pm
Don't forget. This is a propsal. NS, UP, BNSF, CN , FWW, SO will all weigh in on this.
It’ll go through most likely. The conflicts are nearly non existent. It’ll get folks thinking responsive mergers though.
Who else would/could merge? Maybe CN/NS or CN/CSX but I can't think of anything else that makes a ton of sense.
Maybe just simple east-west merger, like UP+CSX / BNSF+NS (no idea if those are likely combos, just examples)?
Re: CP to Buy KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:07 pm
by ns8401
UP/CN/Ferromex? UP owns 26% of Ferromex already and the conflicts seem limited. There’s your second multinational road.
Even taking CN out of that hypothetical the UP could just acquire the rest of Ferromex and be competitive with the CPKC. BNSF would go nuts over it though.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:14 pm
by Saturnalia
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 pm
Even if they get the PM it still requires trackage rights Porter to Chicago. Plus there is more freight. They should have tried for the Michigan Line when Conrail sold the west end to Amtrak in the early to mid 80’s. Not much online business and only Amtrak to work around and it was double track at that time.
Amtrak purchased the west end of the Michigan Line in 1976 on Conrail day...Conrail didn’t even want it, even back then there was no reason for the through route or much in the way of local customers.
MDOT would never let that much tonnage hit the AML without significant compensation for the destruction that tonnage would do to their racetrack.
PM it is, still trackage rights IHB to Porter and Plymouth to the Tunnel but at least it’s all double track on those ends. I doubt NS would treat future hotshot Mexico-to-Ontario intermodals with the same tender love and care as CP could do themselves.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:21 pm
by ns8401
Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:14 pm
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:18 pm
Even if they get the PM it still requires trackage rights Porter to Chicago. Plus there is more freight. They should have tried for the Michigan Line when Conrail sold the west end to Amtrak in the early to mid 80’s. Not much online business and only Amtrak to work around and it was double track at that time.
Amtrak purchased the west end of the Michigan Line in 1976 on Conrail day...Conrail didn’t even want it, even back then there was no reason for the through route or much in the way of local customers.
MDOT would never let that much tonnage hit the AML without significant compensation for the destruction that tonnage would do to their racetrack.
PM it is, still trackage rights IHB to Porter and Plymouth to the Tunnel but at least it’s all double track on those ends. I doubt NS would treat future hotshot Mexico-to-Ontario intermodals with the same tender love and care as CP could do themselves.
Oops.. that’s right, never mind then. Unless NS buys it you can kiss the connection at Butler goodbye in that case. It’s CP owned track. Those hotshot intermodal trains would get bottled up for a minute once they hit Plymouth I suspect. Adding a bunch of traffic into an already semi-busy area is gonna cause some growing pains.
Re: CP/KCS
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:23 pm
by Doktor No
Chip wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:54 pm
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:11 pm
KenB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:42 pm
Don't forget. This is a propsal. NS, UP, BNSF, CN , FWW, SO will all weigh in on this.
It’ll go through most likely. The conflicts are nearly non existent. It’ll get folks thinking responsive mergers though.
Who else would/could merge? Maybe CN/NS or CN/CSX but I can't think of anything else that makes a ton of sense.
Go west young man, go west!