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Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:51 am
by Saturnalia
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/29/tr ... orted.html
Fox News wrote:DEVELOPING: More than 100 people were reported hurt -- and others remained trapped -- after a train slammed into a station in Hoboken, New Jersey Thursday morning as emergency workers rushed to the scene.
Not looking good AT ALL.

>> parts of the trainshed have collapsed

>> based on photos, maps and diagrams, the train overran the bumper, and slammed into the terminal at the end of the platforms.

>> sounds like the train was due to stop at Hoboken at 08:38 ET.

>> one confirmed fatality.

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:53 am
by Saturnalia
Pics:

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and here's what the area looked like before:
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Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:19 am
by Schteinkuh
It's just chilling, seeing blood on the platform, along with metal and wires skewed everywhere.

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:26 am
by Schteinkuh
Body count already at 3, and I'd assume that it'll climb as the day goes on

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:26 pm
by SousaKerry
Ok I'll get the inevitable over with. "PTC would have stopped this form happening."

And the cause was crew fatigue...

But seriously what a horrible tragedy, I feel for the families of the victims and the employees involved,

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:17 am
by Saturnalia
What is becoming very apparent in the railroad media now (and at least not yet in the mainstream), is that PTC would NOT have necessarily prevented this accident. Why? Because of the provision in the rules that allows railroads to not have PTC in places such as stations, if they file for an exemption. NJT has gotten an exemption for Hoboken Terminal, so even when they have their PTC system in full operation, Hoboken Terminal will not be an active area. One of the provisions in the rules of this states that the equipment must not exceed 20mph in non-PTC zones, so when trains coming into Hoboken will leave the PTC zone, they'll still be positively limited by the system to not more than 20mph.

Granted, they're still not sure just how fast they were coming in, so maybe PTC could have prevented it if the train at some point exceeded 20mph, but it would NOT have forced a stop based on the end of track...only speed. Industry experts peg the speed at around 20mph, based on the distance traveled past the bumper, where the head end of the train doesn't appear to have even made the wall of the headhouse.

So there presents an interesting quandary.

Now, maybe it is a good thing the mainsteam media hasn't picked up that exemption, because they'd probably blow it out of proportion.

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:07 pm
by Ypsi
My thought is a programmed breaking curve in spaces like a stub end station would be useful.. If an engineer doesn't meet the speed for x amount of time a warning is issued, and if nothing is changed then a penalty application. The technology exists, yet people still refuse to embrace it. It's the direction everything (not just RRs) are going.. and at this point I'm tired of seeing the stories of people being killed or injured in train accidents. Will it prevent EVERYTHING? No. Could it have helped with a proper breaking curve and other measures? Most likely. Let's stop having people be killed in preventable accidents.

I'm not saying always have a breaking curve at all stations using PTC, but at a stub platform where the computer could easily know distance and speed there's no reason it can't be programmed in.

And Alex the reason PTC "would have not worked" is because of the exemption you cited (of which I have no direct knowledge of).. If PTC was in place with a break curve, I believe could make a difference, trams and other light rail operate on purely computer control, so it is possible. Based on this though you can't say it wouldn't have worked if it wasn't there, of course in the same breath I can't say it would have worked. (Which is why I am careful to say it could have helped).

(And back into my armchair to be told I'm wrong)

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:55 pm
by Bulby
The problem I have with believing that PTC will work is that PTC does not play well with commuter train schedules and operating practices. Even with a computer approved "braking curve" in place in a situation like this, you're going to have to stop further from the End Of Track than without PTC. PTC is not, nor will it ever be, an end-all safety program that drops into a situation and prevents human error entirely.

From people I know how have run on PTC equipped trains, in PTC "live" territory, the system is far from perfect, far from ready, and far from actually helping prevent fatalities and accidents.

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:36 pm
by hoborich
I think this Hoboken crash is going to cause them to take a second look at the exemptions, with or without media pressure.

Re: Major Commuter Rail Wreck at Hoboken, NJ

Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:18 pm
by Saturnalia
The train was going 21 mph at the time of impact. Train had been slowed to just 8 mph, but accelerated for a short time pulling into the station.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/06/tr ... limit.html