Amtrak train from D.C. crashes in Philly.

[GTWFRED]

106 MPH over twice the 50 limit

[SousaKerry]

Be interesting to see if the engineer was on his cell phone at the time either texting or talking. Sad situation!

Considering the law preventing crews from even having a phone in their possession while on duty has been in effect for awhile now I doubt that was the cause but then again drugs and alcohol are against the law and it still happens. We may never know the whole story behind this but I am sure this guy will wind up on trial for manslaughter or at least civil suits. That engineers life as he knows it is over now.

[Saturnalia]

106 MPH over twice the 50 limit

Yeah, maybe the track failed under the cars, as the previous poster suggested. But that would be due to SPEEDING, not shoddy track infrastructure.

[CSX_CO]

106 MPH over twice the 50 limit

Yeah, maybe the track failed under the cars, as the previous poster suggested. But that would be due to SPEEDING, not shoddy track infrastructure.

Uneducated guess is at that speed, the inertia of the train set just went right up and over the top of the rail. There isn't much area keeping those wheels from riding up and over as it is. that kind of speed I doubt it was track failure that cause the wheel to rail contact to be lost. Which would explain why the train set continued in a generally straight path from where the really sharp part of the curve is.

[Y@]

Hmm... Those sure do look like bullet holes in the windshield to me.



Also: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/us/philad ... erailment/

[Ypsi]

Hmm... Those sure do look like bullet holes in the windshield to me.

Looks like just shattered windows from the crash.. It would be VERY VERY surprising to me if a report surfaces of gun shots being fired into the cab if nothing had been reported in these days. Nothing like that would stay out of the reports that long at all unless there was a MAJOR oversight of some sort.

[Saturnalia]

Probably rocks which flew up during the derailment

[CSX_CO]

Hmm... Those sure do look like bullet holes in the windshield to me.



Also: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/us/philad ... erailment/

The FRA glass would contain the remains of a bullet if it had been shot. Plus, that glass doesn't stop very big caliber stuff. With as peppered as the front of that engine is from debris, going with it was suffered during the derailment.

[PM1946]

Trains Magazine's frequent contributor Fred Frailey has some interesting thoughts.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/opinions/ ... index.html

[hoborich]

they were wrong when they reported that the Amtrak train may have struck another train, they were going simply off speculation.

Imagine my complete shock and surprise!

Bullet holes would not cause the train to be going 107 mph. Most likely stones or debris from the engine plowing up the ground. The 107 mph would likely be attributed to engineer error, and maybe not paying attention to his actual position. Hard to figure why he would knowingly head into a 50 mph curve at 107 mph. He seems fairly young, which would seem to rule out health problems. I doubt he's going to tell us much, on the advice of his lawyer.

[Saturnalia]

And cue the calls for in-cab cameras.

Too bad the RRs may try them for babysitting crews...but if they were just used as a "black box" sorta deal it could be beneficial.

Also, this is a wreck PTC would have prevented. No reason not to have it on passenger corridors!

[Matt Short Line H]

[quote="heypal6878"]I have been on that train before a few times. Normally the train hits that curve around 50 mph maybe a little higher. I would say if the train was going 102 around that curve two thing may have happen. Going that fast there is a lean. Speed and tracks may have given way. That track sees plenty of rail traffic everyday. Not sure when the tracks were inspected last. [quote]

Amtrak says it inspected that section of track earlier that morning and found no faults. Whether or not that's true remains to be seen. But if this really did happen because of bad track or a faulty locomotive or plain human error, lawyers are going to be very happy when this is all over.

[GP30M4216]

This article has some helpful maps and diagrams about what is known about the wreck and other related materials such as train speed and where PTC is already functioning on the Northeast Corridor:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015 ... .html?_r=0

[Standard Railfan]

Hmm... Those sure do look like bullet holes in the windshield to me.

Is that you standing in the ROW with your arms crossed, without the proper PPE, doing an inspection?

[CSX_CO]

And cue the calls for in-cab cameras.

Too bad the RRs may try them for babysitting crews...but if they were just used as a "black box" sorta deal it could be beneficial.

Don't give the railroad a reason to come looking at the in cab cameras, then they don't need to be using them to see what you're doing.

This is going to go down a side track, but I can't help but think that the need for all this additional measures of "safety" is the inability to really 'fire' someone on a railroad. I'm not saying the individual in this wreck was a 'bad egg', merely making a commentary on railroad discipline, and more so Union protection. You really, really, really, have to screw up to get 'terminated'. Even then, if it is your 'first' offense, it may not be permanent. You have to royally screw up several times to get really fired. The vast majority of railroaders are professional, attentive, and do a great job. The problem is with that small percentage that just don't "get it" who are going to get someone hurt or killed. Doesn't take long to realize who those people are. The problem is, the Carriers can't just go up to them and say "We think you're a danger to yourself and others, we're going to have to let you go." They have to prove they're that danger before you can fire them for good.

In my experience, the people who have the most catastrophic 'human factor' accidents, usually have a long record of rule violations. It is usually that catastrophic event that will finally get them fired and removed from the rails. Why does it have to come to that? Anyway, it is that repeated need to prove the person is a danger that leads to in-cab cameras. Remote downloading of engines. Outward facing cameras. Etc.

[AARR]

...merely making a commentary on railroad discipline, and more so Union protection. You really, really, really, have to screw up to get 'terminated'. Even then, if it is your 'first' offense, it may not be permanent. You have to royally screw up several times to get really fired.

I work with the SEIU in metro Detroit and I swear their mission is to protect those employees who really need to be fired. I'm not indicting the SEIU across the board but locally (Detroit) they are little (notice I'm not saying none at all) help to those of us trying to provide our customers with safe and economical services. If a person is a threat to other people or their property they need to be removed immediately and with SEIU of Detroit in too many cases it's a fight to make that happen.

Now, to make this fair and balanced, I hear from other cities that their SEIU representatives are more cooperative in removing potentially harmful employees from buildings.

[Ypsi]

Sun rail in Florida has 3 camera angles (at least based on this video of an incident they had) two forward facing and one interior camera on the engineer. The interior shows the engineers back side and the control stand. Enough to tell if they were doing something wrong or not. I understand both sides of the argument for having and not having in cab cameras, I personally would not want a camera watching me do my job. But at the same time if you are not doing anything wrong then you will have no issues with them. Even though I am against the idea I do believe it can serve as a safety feature and could prevent unsafe activities from starting, and make sure those that are at fault are punished and terminated. If I knew there was a camera watching me I wouldn't even think of pulling out that cell phone, news paper, camera, ect (insert distraction here). The crews that follow the rules would be fine, and those that break the rules and get caught can be punished (weather or not that means fired or not I wouldn't be able to say.. Unions and all). I also believe that if people could see weather or not the engineer was at fault it could provide some form of closure or confirmation to those involved, as in people would KNOW the engineer messed up, or know that they did everything in their power to try and prevent the situation. Those are some of my thoughts on the issue, not trying to start a super debate within this topic but I'm sure I will get some more opinions with this statement.

Sun rail cab cameras video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpdHKZrSOk

[heypal6878]

I have taken that train a few times as I stated above. Here is my opinion for what it is worth. The engineer here has been on that rail many of times and knows the speed limit. I think something may have went wrong with the train and It might not be all the engineer's fault. I mean the train just left the station and really it was on time so there was no need to speed up the train to make up lost time.

When I took that train I always feel that the train is safe and the people operating the train are well trained so really I feel safe. Unlike a plane that the pilots move from one plane to another after most landings the engineer on a train many times say on the same train and don't go to another one. I kind of feel that the problem is not so much the engineer but the train itself may have had an internal issue.

I'm sure that in the next few weeks this issue will be resolved but right not the blame is falling in the engineer but it may not be his fault entirely. As the train accelerated down the track maybe the engineer was trying to figure out what the problem was in the cabin and then realized at the last minute to pull the brake to slow down the train. I'm sure he knew there is no way that train could go 103 mph around that curve. For what it is worth I would not find fault with the engineer so fast but look at other issues that may have going on with the power of the engine. Just my opinion!'

[Schteinkuh]

Hmm... Those sure do look like bullet holes in the windshield to me.



Also: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/us/philad ... erailment/

The FRA glass would contain the remains of a bullet if it had been shot. Plus, that glass doesn't stop very big caliber stuff. With as peppered as the front of that engine is from debris, going with it was suffered during the derailment.

Two SEPTA trains were hit by unknown projectiles just a couple miles south of this location just before 188 came through. Only the mayor has said the two incidents are unrelated. Basing off the amount of crazy BS that idiot has said in the last 72 hours I wouldn't believe him one bit. The results from the event recorder and can camera are the following.
65 seconds before impact: 70mph
43 seconds: 80mph
31 seconds: 90mph
16 seconds: 100mph

[Bulby]

For the people talking about cameras; all Amtrak locomotives have forward facing cameras and real time diagnostic downloads available to management. That includes locomotive "health", throttle position, speed, GPS location, what train it is on, whether or not the train is on time, etc. If the train goes into emergency, the last 15 seconds of the black box data, forward facing camera, etc are immediately emailed to the relevant supervisors.

Yes, big brother is already watching.

I doubt that the engineer went back into the "engine" room while underway, as unless you with Amtrak mechanical, you aren't going to understand much of what is in there (lots of computers and such).

The automatic signal enforcement that is in place elsewhere on the corridor (NOT PTC!!!) would have prevented this easily. Amtrak needs to come up with a VERY good explanation for why this was not in place. It's not new technology; having been developed as a result of Ricky Gates/Gunpow in 1987.