More dumb buttoxes. Guess this is ok by everyone too!
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/27176
I suppose this is ok too!
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sd70accsxt700
- Sofa King follower
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- Location: Toledo, OH.
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sd70accsxt700
- Sofa King follower
- Posts: 6159
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:59 pm
- Location: Toledo, OH.
SD70,
I'm missing the part where I ever said it was not illegal to trespass on railroad property or that I encourage such things. With respect to the other thread, I stated several times that the railroad-cart kids would deserve whatever punishment or injury that they got as a result of their actions. I even went so far as to call what they were doing unintelligent and reckless.
My logic hasn't changed here. Only this time the trespassers got injured as a result, and I believe that they should accept the consequences. Just like the railroad-cart kids should if they get caught or injured.
You have built a strawman argument here. You are confused in your thinking that I think that trespassing is "ok." We're on the same page regarding trespassing, though my point is "so what are you going to do about it?"
I'm missing the part where I ever said it was not illegal to trespass on railroad property or that I encourage such things. With respect to the other thread, I stated several times that the railroad-cart kids would deserve whatever punishment or injury that they got as a result of their actions. I even went so far as to call what they were doing unintelligent and reckless.
My logic hasn't changed here. Only this time the trespassers got injured as a result, and I believe that they should accept the consequences. Just like the railroad-cart kids should if they get caught or injured.
You have built a strawman argument here. You are confused in your thinking that I think that trespassing is "ok." We're on the same page regarding trespassing, though my point is "so what are you going to do about it?"
But still the RR's have to go though all the expense to litigate this, they will probably settle out of court, these kids are no different than the other clowns that ride the rails out west on there contraption if those guys get hurt they are going to sue the RR and probably win, especially now that they have this posted on the internet. They can claim the RR knew what they were doing and didn’t stop them, or the RR should let them know how dangerous the track was, 8 seconds is not a lot of time when you are surprised or panic.
What can be done about it, the video of the kids should be forwarded to the proper authorities RR police.
The electric kids should have never been given a day in court.
Does common sense not register anymore? You would have thought the buzzing sound or their hair standing on end or the tingling sensation they felt would have given them some warning.
What can be done about it, the video of the kids should be forwarded to the proper authorities RR police.
The electric kids should have never been given a day in court.
Does common sense not register anymore? You would have thought the buzzing sound or their hair standing on end or the tingling sensation they felt would have given them some warning.
For every trespasser who posts his story on the internet, there are hundreds that do not. My question about trespassers in general stands: What are the railroads supposed to do about it? There's no way to protect even a small percentage of the ROW against trespassers. You may catch the cart kids but you wont even put a dent in the problem.
If someone is determined to trespass, I'd much rather it be the kids with scanners and railroad knowledge than some fools trying to get close to high power cables.
So what's the solution? I don't think that shaking your collective fists at your monitors and going on and on about how stupid these people are is going to help anything. You're just stating the obvious.
So how do you prevent people from riding rail carts or climbing railroad cars and getting fried? You can't. The problem lies within the court system, because you aren't going to change human nature and the instinct to explore. People need to be held accountable for what they do.
If someone is determined to trespass, I'd much rather it be the kids with scanners and railroad knowledge than some fools trying to get close to high power cables.
So what's the solution? I don't think that shaking your collective fists at your monitors and going on and on about how stupid these people are is going to help anything. You're just stating the obvious.
So how do you prevent people from riding rail carts or climbing railroad cars and getting fried? You can't. The problem lies within the court system, because you aren't going to change human nature and the instinct to explore. People need to be held accountable for what they do.
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sd70accsxt700
- Sofa King follower
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- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:59 pm
- Location: Toledo, OH.
I have been giving you how, so has esprrfan, an answer what to do, but alas we are over excited zellous railfans and fear mongerers. Here I will I will even quote our selves.
Well as far as us "railfans" policing our selves, we should and we should all be doing it. I mean look at all the places we used to be able to go to and stand around to watch trains, on railroad property, where the railroad, both officals and railroad police, turned a blind eye, as long as we behaved, and did not do anythig stupid to harm ourselves. All that is gone. And who do we have to blame except our selves. If we dont police ourselves and pull those aside who tresspass, or do dangerous acts, then who will. I will tell you who the "railroad" and it will be by making more places we go off limits. It is up to ourselves to make our fellow railfans follow the rules, and behave, or else. I have twice now called in on, fellow railfans, after approaching them and saying hey quit doing that. We cant keep expecting to be able to do what we do, if people keep goofing it up for us. As far as nonrailfans, well that is up to them to keepthem selves out of harms way.
Oh but as I said, we are just fearmongering, individuals because we do what is right. I forgot commin sence is gone out the window along time ago. Sorry Mark, but the railfan community, at leas those of us who know what we have to "lose", do care and a a closer knit community than you realise. Just to prove my pioint stronger look at all the recent re-hype of what happened to the Sharks up in the UP. More careless tresspassing railfans and railroaders. So just to make it clear again. We need to police our selves.As for the fans "secret police" I feel its always better for us to "police" ourselves as a group. Otherwise if crews report our actions we all know what actions the rr police take.
SD70,
What I had said is that one of your responses employed fearmongering. I never called you a "fearmonger." I would hate to think that you are taking any of this personally. I think this is a good discussion. If you have taken any of this personally I apologize for giving you the impression that I intended to demean you. I think it's great that we have railroad employees such as yourself on the boards. Please don't take this debate as anything more than what it is. I have nothing against you personally, and it would be a pleasure to meet you if we ever crossed paths.
I think that the root cause of your concern has escaped you. You truly can't believe that the lack of common sense is a recent thing, when in reality people have been killed by trains for as long as there have been trains. The culprit here is not some sudden loss of common sense among trespassers. It is our litiguous society and the lack of justice in our judicial system. Juries are awarding large sums to people like this, simply because they see suffering and figure that the railroads have such deep pockets that they won't even notice the loss. It's a common syndrome among the courts to try to "stick it" to big business, right or wrong.
You are also making the assumption that all trespassers are railfans. I'd argue that railfans make up only a small portion of overall trespassers. How do non-railfans fit into your plan for self governing this close knit society of which you speak?
By "policing ourselves" what you really mean is trying to tell others what to do. I have a different attitude. I say that if someone is determined to trespass, let 'em and they'll suffer the consequences. It's not like what you say is going to stop anyone anyways, unless you are some sort of law enforcement officer.
The people who stole articles from the E&LS are criminals. They are also railfans by definition. Don't you think that if there was such a "close-knit" organizatation of railfans that these people would have been turned in by their railfan friends by now? I mean, based on what they stole they obviously knew something about trains and were interested in the subject matter, making them railfans.
Policing ourselves? I say you police yourself, and I'll do the same for me. I think that your anger and energy would be better directed at the judicial system than in an attempt to try to straighten out human nature itself. I may be cynical but I don't think that the human nature that drives people to do these things will ever change. Instead I'd just rather see people like this suffer the consequences of their actions instead of being pampered by sympathetic juries that have an agenda against big business.
Regards,
Mark
What I had said is that one of your responses employed fearmongering. I never called you a "fearmonger." I would hate to think that you are taking any of this personally. I think this is a good discussion. If you have taken any of this personally I apologize for giving you the impression that I intended to demean you. I think it's great that we have railroad employees such as yourself on the boards. Please don't take this debate as anything more than what it is. I have nothing against you personally, and it would be a pleasure to meet you if we ever crossed paths.
I think that the root cause of your concern has escaped you. You truly can't believe that the lack of common sense is a recent thing, when in reality people have been killed by trains for as long as there have been trains. The culprit here is not some sudden loss of common sense among trespassers. It is our litiguous society and the lack of justice in our judicial system. Juries are awarding large sums to people like this, simply because they see suffering and figure that the railroads have such deep pockets that they won't even notice the loss. It's a common syndrome among the courts to try to "stick it" to big business, right or wrong.
You are also making the assumption that all trespassers are railfans. I'd argue that railfans make up only a small portion of overall trespassers. How do non-railfans fit into your plan for self governing this close knit society of which you speak?
By "policing ourselves" what you really mean is trying to tell others what to do. I have a different attitude. I say that if someone is determined to trespass, let 'em and they'll suffer the consequences. It's not like what you say is going to stop anyone anyways, unless you are some sort of law enforcement officer.
The people who stole articles from the E&LS are criminals. They are also railfans by definition. Don't you think that if there was such a "close-knit" organizatation of railfans that these people would have been turned in by their railfan friends by now? I mean, based on what they stole they obviously knew something about trains and were interested in the subject matter, making them railfans.
Policing ourselves? I say you police yourself, and I'll do the same for me. I think that your anger and energy would be better directed at the judicial system than in an attempt to try to straighten out human nature itself. I may be cynical but I don't think that the human nature that drives people to do these things will ever change. Instead I'd just rather see people like this suffer the consequences of their actions instead of being pampered by sympathetic juries that have an agenda against big business.
Regards,
Mark
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SousaKerry
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Natural Selection take off all the warning labels throw all the frivolous lawsuits out of court and let the stupid ones die, heck we have no-fault auto insurance in this state I say No-Fault Liability unless of course you can prove that someone purposly intended to inflict harm on another.
heck Adam did not sue Eave cause she gave him the apple
and God sure as heck did not have a warning sticker on the apple or the snake. (just a metaphore not a religious statement)
Sousa
heck Adam did not sue Eave cause she gave him the apple
and God sure as heck did not have a warning sticker on the apple or the snake. (just a metaphore not a religious statement)Sousa
What smells like lube oil and diesel.... Oh wait it's just my "Locomotive Breath"
Just did a search on this, it gets even better.
Apparently it was posted no tresspassing, not that it would have mattered to these kids. This is just an example how the court system is failing us.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:yCE ... =clnk&cd=1
4)
The two plaintiffs walked up the 30’ embankment to the tail track and then
climbed the ladder located at the end of the Norfolk Southern freight car parked on the
track. The two plaintiffs climbed the ladder 15’ 6” above the track. They were located in
the vicinity of mile post 66.9. Amtrak had placed “no trespassing” signs along the right
of way and specifically on the tail track within the area of milepost 66.9. The two
plaintiffs proceeded to the right of way from the south.
Both Birdwell and Klein knew that they had climbed onto property that did
not belong to them and that neither was invited to do so.
Birdwell and Klein both knew that the catenary wire or wires like the ones
noticed by Birdwell were dangerous. Birdwell and Klein both knew that electricity could
kill. Birdwell knew that wires like the ones above FLRX5502 carried electricity and he would never voluntarily touch such wires if he knew they were live. Neither plaintiff,
however, realized the wires were energized until after the accident.
The plaintiffs have
presented some evidence that seventeen year-old males generally do not have fully mature
brains, and as such can not fully control their impulses or appreciate some risks.
Stengel also found that a reasonable jury could agree with the plaintiffs' argument that Amtrak failed to exercise reasonable care to eliminate the danger since it could have parked the railroad cars in a different location, placed warning signs or de-energized the lines while the cars were parked.
Apparently it was posted no tresspassing, not that it would have mattered to these kids. This is just an example how the court system is failing us.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:yCE ... =clnk&cd=1
4)
The two plaintiffs walked up the 30’ embankment to the tail track and then
climbed the ladder located at the end of the Norfolk Southern freight car parked on the
track. The two plaintiffs climbed the ladder 15’ 6” above the track. They were located in
the vicinity of mile post 66.9. Amtrak had placed “no trespassing” signs along the right
of way and specifically on the tail track within the area of milepost 66.9. The two
plaintiffs proceeded to the right of way from the south.
Both Birdwell and Klein knew that they had climbed onto property that did
not belong to them and that neither was invited to do so.
Birdwell and Klein both knew that the catenary wire or wires like the ones
noticed by Birdwell were dangerous. Birdwell and Klein both knew that electricity could
kill. Birdwell knew that wires like the ones above FLRX5502 carried electricity and he would never voluntarily touch such wires if he knew they were live. Neither plaintiff,
however, realized the wires were energized until after the accident.
The plaintiffs have
presented some evidence that seventeen year-old males generally do not have fully mature
brains, and as such can not fully control their impulses or appreciate some risks.
Stengel also found that a reasonable jury could agree with the plaintiffs' argument that Amtrak failed to exercise reasonable care to eliminate the danger since it could have parked the railroad cars in a different location, placed warning signs or de-energized the lines while the cars were parked.