Union Pacific Issues Photography Policy

[Saturnalia]

OMAHA, Neb. — Union Pacific is asking photographers of their trains and the railroad environment to stay off railroad property as they pursue their hobbies and jobs.

The railroad has laid out rules, in consultation with TRAINS, in an effort to protect photographers’ rights while keeping photographers safe. They’re available here: http://www.uprr.com/she/photo-video.shtml.

“We want to remind photographers that walking on or near railroads is extremely dangerous because you never know when a train will come along,” said Dale Bray, UP’s director-public safety. “We urge professional and amateur photographers alike to set the right example for others by adhering to the safety guidelines.”

UP set up its photo/video guidelines in response to an individual who placed a video camera between the rails to document the passage of steam locomotive No. 844.

The rules also address recent actions taken by professional photographers, who have been staging yearbook portraits and other photo shoots on UP tracks.

Article Courtesy Trains Magazine's News Wire

[slwapprslw]

I really have to ask this: "What's really Changed?" Trespassing on RR property has always been a "no, no", and the railroads usually seek removal of the person. I don't see any point in the UP posting a photo policy when they already post "No Trespassing" signs. The signs should be sufficient enough to convey the message.

[Saturnalia]

I really have to ask this: "What's really Changed?" Trespassing on RR property has always been a "no, no", and the railroads usually seek removal of the person. I don't see any point in the UP posting a photo policy when they already post "No Trespassing" signs. The signs should be sufficient enough to convey the message.

I know--wierd. I guess that was more for the RR Cops than us. Get it in writing, then it can't be disputed--thats why contracts are written, not said.
Just looked at it too: it says that UP will seek removal of any images/videos that violate the policy--hmmm

[J T]

Just looked at it too: it says that UP will seek removal of any images/videos that violate the policy--hmmm

They'd better get busy on RP!

“We want to remind photographers that walking on or near railroads is extremely dangerous because you never know when a train will come along,”

They should have added:

"We'd also like to remind you that walking near a busy street is dangerous, too, because you never know when a driver is going to lose control of a car and run you over."

[sd70accsxt700]

I will tell you why a policy now. Because it is now in writing for everyone to see. Now that everyone can see it, they can use it to go after people braking the "rule". Just like coffiie, do you really need a warning that its hot, I mean come on really?

[slwapprslw]

I really have to ask this: "What's really Changed?" Trespassing on RR property has always been a "no, no", and the railroads usually seek removal of the person. I don't see any point in the UP posting a photo policy when they already post "No Trespassing" signs. The signs should be sufficient enough to convey the message.

I know--weird. I guess that was more for the RR Cops than us. Get it in writing, then it can't be disputed--that's why contracts are written, not said.
Just looked at it too: it says that UP will seek removal of any images/videos that violate the policy--hmmm

I find the last line of the policy to be a joke and hard to do. I'd like to see them try to remove my images from say Flickr (for an example). I pay for the right to post my images there. I can see them getting in to litigation for an action like that. I think this so called line of the policy is a way for magazines such as Trains to deny publish. If this was the case, then Trains would have a right to do such action. It's their publication and they can do what they choose.

I would also like to note from the statement above that I currently do not have any images from the UP nor am I advocating trespassing on the UP. So in reality, I have nothing to worry about at this time.

[J T]

I will tell you why a policy now. Because it is now in writing for everyone to see. Now that everyone can see it, they can use it to go after people braking the "rule". Just like coffiie, do you really need a warning that its hot, I mean come on really?

Yet...someone would still sue even if they got burned! It's a no-win situation either way. Somewhere out there are crooked laywers always looking for loopholes.

[conrailmike]

Like JT said, the lawyers are out there in the bushes just waiting to pounce. If they really wanted to, they could and would drag you through court and the question is, do you really want to spend all that time and money trying to beat Union Pacific over some photos on a website? I'm not saying it's right but let's remember who has more money and time here.

It's like the patent cases going on right now with Apple, when you have a building full of lawyers they need something to do.....

[GreatLakesRailfan]

So...if a photo is published, but UP finds out at the same time as everyone else, are they planning to track down every copy of that publication and destroy it? It might be worth something to a company like Trains to comply with the company's policies (advertising dollars among other things), but is every publication that publishes railroad photos going to run their photo submissions by the company for approval before sending it to the printer?

Also, although there are some images that you can tell involved blatant trespassing, without a personal knowledge of the area and/or the equipment used to obtain the image/video, how will the company pursue legal action against such images? For example, using a zoom lens to get a shot of a train about to round a curve, and a photo editing program to remove the upcoming curve...

[AARR]

So...if a photo is published, but UP finds out at the same time as everyone else, are they planning to track down every copy of that publication and destroy it?

Dont give them any ideas, MKT

[Jochs]

So...if a photo is published, but UP finds out at the same time as everyone else, are they planning to track down every copy of that publication and destroy it?

Dont give them any ideas, MKT

I think UP is concerned with the people who set their tripods on the tracks or put their cameras between the rails.
If you have a decent telephoto lens, you can get decent pictures and be well off their property.

Here is an example of what UP doesn't like. This photo was taken on Oct 8, 2011 in Jackson, MI when the Amtrak 40th anniversary train was there:

Note how the photographers seem to be totally oblivious of the fact that they are standing on railroad tracks.
There were railroad police around, and may have given them permission, but this is not always the case when photographers are taking pictures.

[AARR]

I think UP is concerned with the people who set their tripods on the tracks or put their cameras between the rails.

That would be a reasonable policy and just about everbody would understand it. But I suspect UP will be more heavy handed on the matter and go after those who are taking pictures from public and safe locations. I get the impression that in general railroads have grouped all people into the enemy list and are using 9/11 to justify treating us like the scum they think we are.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

I think UP is concerned with the people who set their tripods on the tracks or put their cameras between the rails.

That would be a reasonable policy and just about everbody would understand it. But I suspect UP will be more heavy handed on the matter and go after those who are taking pictures from public and safe locations. I get the impression that in general railroads have grouped all people into the enemy list and are using 9/11 to justify treating us like the scum they think we are.

UP has a history of going overboard on issues like this. A couple years ago it was the licensing BS. Now this. I'm starting to think their legal department has too much free time.

Yes, I understand that trespassing is a big problem with photographers (not necessarily railfans), but the whole thing reeks of censorship and identity control far more than anything else.

[Michigan Railfan]

I've seen cameras under trains on YouTube many times. Is UP the only railroad that doesn't like it? I mean really whats the big deal.

[Saturnalia]

I've seen cameras under trains on YouTube many times. Is UP the only railroad that doesn't like it? I mean really whats the big deal.

Where have you been since 9/11?
They don't want it because they are afraid someone will stuff explosives into a camera and blow it up as a train (with hazarduos materials) goes over. banning it means pedestrians, maintianers, and crews notice it more when someone does put something between the rails
RRs are NOT toys!

[J T]

They don't want it because they are afraid someone will stuff explosives into a camera and blow it up as a train (with hazarduos materials) goes over. banning it means pedestrians, maintianers, and crews notice it more when someone does put something between the rails
RRs are NOT toys!

Uhhh...there are a million other ways to blow up a train. I highly doubt that the existence of a camera between the tracks gives anyone the idea to put explosives in a camera to do the job, or even the idea in general to put something between the tracks to blow up a train.

If someone has the gumption to blow up a train, they certainly don't need to be persuaded by some silly video on youtube.

You might as well say that someone standing by tracks lighting a cigarette will give someone the idea to use a flame thrower on a passing train.

[sd70accsxt700]

MQT the issue of the camera between the tracks has more to do with someone getting runover or hurt while placing the camera, then any 911 issue.

[Saturnalia]

They don't want it because they are afraid someone will stuff explosives into a camera and blow it up as a train (with hazarduos materials) goes over. banning it means pedestrians, maintianers, and crews notice it more when someone does put something between the rails
RRs are NOT toys!

Uhhh...there are a million other ways to blow up a train. I highly doubt that the existence of a camera between the tracks gives anyone the idea to put explosives in a camera to do the job, or even the idea in general to put something between the tracks to blow up a train.

If someone has the gumption to blow up a train, they certainly don't need to be persuaded by some silly video on youtube.

You might as well say that someone standing by tracks lighting a cigarette will give someone the idea to use a flame thrower on a passing train.

not saying someone would GET the idea from a video, but rather, think of it this way:
if everyone put their camera between the tracks, crews would really notice/report it.
if no one does it, then the minute someone does, the crew would alert dispatch, and the cops would be on their way
but, there iis no fool-proof way to stop these things (some idiot will always put the camera under the train)
all we can do is stay off ourselves

[J T]

not saying someone would GET the idea from a video, but rather, think of it this way:
if everyone put their camera between the tracks, crews would really notice/report it.
if no one does it, then the minute someone does, the crew would alert dispatch, and the cops would be on their way
but, there iis no fool-proof way to stop these things (some idiot will always put the camera under the train)
all we can do is stay off ourselves

Even "thinking of it this way," I still can't fathom what sticking a camera between the rails has to do with blowing a train up.

Actually, Matt summed it the best.

[Saturnalia]

not saying someone would GET the idea from a video, but rather, think of it this way:
if everyone put their camera between the tracks, crews would really notice/report it.
if no one does it, then the minute someone does, the crew would alert dispatch, and the cops would be on their way
but, there iis no fool-proof way to stop these things (some idiot will always put the camera under the train)
all we can do is stay off ourselves

Even "thinking of it this way," I still can't fathom what sticking a camera between the rails has to do with blowing a train up.

Actually, Matt summed it the best.

I guess you'll never realize...