ABS Signal System

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legostudios34
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ABS Signal System

Unread post by legostudios34 »

I'll ask this here - maybe I'll get a response, unlike on Facebook.
I was wondering if anyone here had any experience using the products from Integrated Signal Systems for adding a signalling system to their layout. I'm modelling a low-traffic secondary line (about 6 trains in 24 hours) based off the concept that CSX followed through with the rumors to sell off their line across the Florida Panhandle, and I'm running it as if FEC bought it. I've got a Digitrax DCC system, if that matters that much for this.
Anyway, to my questions.
I'm looking at adding a signalling system to the layout as I work on expanding it. I'm looking at going with an ABS signal system with dispatching through either DTC blocks or TWC. There are two passing sidings separated by a section of single track, but one of the sections of single track is rather long, so it would likely be divided into two blocks. This would give a total of 5 blocks on the railroad. I'm just having a lot of trouble finding info on having an ABS system, as it seems like most people have went the CTC route. I don't really want to have this all hooked up to a separate computer, and it looks like the Integrated Signal Systems products would work well for that, at least from looking at their website. What all would I need to set up a full ABS signalling system using block detection? (I absolutely do not want to go the infrared or photodetector route - I don't like how those change from red to yellow to green after a train is no longer right over the detector) I would prefer not to have to this all hooked up to the computer, although I have a spare computer I could hook up if I really had to.
Now, as far as my sidings go, they're pretty different from what a lot of other people do. All of my sidings are manually thrown, spurs and passing sidings. No switch machines on any of them. For signalling them, I'm planning to go the way NS has done it in some places like Midway siding on the North Alabama division or Fort Payne siding on the AGS north - It's basically an "intermediate" signal at each end of the siding. One head for each direction, and no aspect is shown for whether the train is going via the main or via the siding. Which track the train takes would be determined by their track warrant. If dispatch said they'd take the siding, then they'd stop at the signal and throw the switch, just like it's done on the prototypes I've listed. The signals simply show whether the main line is occupied. Since these are basically an intermediate signal with the milepost on the mast, they are stop and proceed signals. If a red aspect is shown, indicating the mainline is occupied, the train running toward the signal would stop, and could proceed at restricted speed after stopping. On the prototype, this happens when a train stops on the mainline at the siding for a meet, and the second train to get there is routed through the siding. Basically, The entire layout would be signalled as a single track main with no passing sidings - the main is the only thing signalled.
So, I guess my biggest question is, has anyone done anything like this before? I've looked at the Integrated Signal Systems products a lot, and they seem rather simple and that they don't require a computer to run ABS, but I know that nothing is ever as simple as it seems... anyone know what ISS parts I'd need to run the basic ABS system I've described above, and how well their parts work with Details West signals, which are currently my top choice for the actual heads and masts?
Thanks for any help you guys can offer.
Baxter Barnes. 21. Alabama.
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MrRail
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by MrRail »

Personally, I don't know much about signaling, but you may want to look up JMRI aka Java Model Railroading Interface. I don't tend to know much on it ,but someone out there will undoubtedly have a tutorial on at least some aspects of it.
Anything can be fixed with WD40 and ductape......... Right?

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dmitzel
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by dmitzel »

I thought I read somewhere that ISS was shutting down - owner retiring. Perhaps I read that wrong, but you might want to Google them to see if that comes up anywhere.

If this becomes more than "vapor-ware" it should be an interesting step: http://www.dwnewman.com/AmazingRailroad ... index.html

Not sure about detection, though - the whole common anode vs. common cathode issue across the industry. I'm leaning towards the BLMA modern "vader" hoods but am waiting to see if they'll release a bi-directional, single-mast intermediate signal first.
D.M. Mitzel
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TrainWatcher
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by TrainWatcher »

JMRI. It's what I'll be working into the new Clinch Valley system, and I have about the same traffic level as you do.

legostudios34
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by legostudios34 »

Thanks for the input everyone - I had just suggested ISS because it looked like they had most of the stuff necessary, but some further research shows that Digitrax has basically all the hardware I need and Oregon Rail Supply has the style of signals I'm looking for. And James, even though I said I didn't want to use a computer, JMRI looks like the way to go. I looked it up this morning after reading your post and it should be able to do everything I wanted for the signal system, as well as a lot more. (Should make speed-matching Tsunami decoders a lot easier also.) Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to post updates on the signal system once the layout gets to a point where components can start going in.
Baxter Barnes. 21. Alabama.
Meow. Now you know how to speak cat. -Flickr
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TrainWatcher
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by TrainWatcher »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sepWWkZvIGw

I suggest watching this series. He explains JMRI and also some great easy set-up tips on HO scale signals with JMRI.

rob
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by rob »

if you are looking to use a computer, look into cmri by Bruce Chubb. he has a great handbook covering signals and how their are used. he going to have another article in railroad model craftsman (December). you can use jmri to control it or write you own program. if your in the grand rapids area he is local.

Rob Brown

cmri http://www.jlcenterprises.net/Index.htm

Bruce's layout https://youtu.be/a9UHYmFOOI0

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GP9R
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by GP9R »

legostudios34 wrote:Thanks for the input everyone - I had just suggested ISS because it looked like they had most of the stuff necessary, but some further research shows that Digitrax has basically all the hardware I need and Oregon Rail Supply has the style of signals I'm looking for. And James, even though I said I didn't want to use a computer, JMRI looks like the way to go. I looked it up this morning after reading your post and it should be able to do everything I wanted for the signal system, as well as a lot more. (Should make speed-matching Tsunami decoders a lot easier also.) Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to post updates on the signal system once the layout gets to a point where components can start going in.
If you are wanting the signals to work properly you need to add at least on resistor to each car so that the block detector can detect the cars. I'm pretty sure using all the digitrax equipment will allow you to do what you want without the need of having a computer. However, if you didn't plan your layout for block detectors and drop the feeders in the correct place and have gaps in the correct place it can be a bit time consuming to set all that up. I previously built a layout that had 15 blocks on it and I went though 300+ft of wire, and it took me almost 4 days to wire it all up and make sure it was all functional. All that was on a roughly 10x12 layout

legostudios34
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Re: ABS Signal System

Unread post by legostudios34 »

GP9R wrote:
legostudios34 wrote:Thanks for the input everyone - I had just suggested ISS because it looked like they had most of the stuff necessary, but some further research shows that Digitrax has basically all the hardware I need and Oregon Rail Supply has the style of signals I'm looking for. And James, even though I said I didn't want to use a computer, JMRI looks like the way to go. I looked it up this morning after reading your post and it should be able to do everything I wanted for the signal system, as well as a lot more. (Should make speed-matching Tsunami decoders a lot easier also.) Thanks for the input everyone. I'll try to post updates on the signal system once the layout gets to a point where components can start going in.
If you are wanting the signals to work properly you need to add at least on resistor to each car so that the block detector can detect the cars. I'm pretty sure using all the digitrax equipment will allow you to do what you want without the need of having a computer. However, if you didn't plan your layout for block detectors and drop the feeders in the correct place and have gaps in the correct place it can be a bit time consuming to set all that up. I previously built a layout that had 15 blocks on it and I went though 300+ft of wire, and it took me almost 4 days to wire it all up and make sure it was all functional. All that was on a roughly 10x12 layout
I knew about the resistors on at least one axle of each car, I'm exploring the cheapest options for that right now.

Thanks for letting me know about how much wire this takes - The current wiring is very minimal, just enough to let me run some trains - I did it with the plan to rewire in the future. My layout is 19 by 9, so I wonder how much wire it will end up taking...
Baxter Barnes. 21. Alabama.
Meow. Now you know how to speak cat. -Flickr
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