EDIT: N and HO scale- CMGN Decal Questions

Model railroading in all scales and gauges. HO talk welcome :)
GreatLakesRailfan
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EDIT: N and HO scale- CMGN Decal Questions

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Question for the N scalers here- I know it comes up every couple years, but I'm interested in current interest, not past interest- IF there was an opportunity to purchase CMGN decals in N scale, would anyone be interested?

This would be a fairly limited set, limited mostly to the CM herald on the sides of several units, and the front of the 2014. It wouldn't include the chevrons on the ends of several units, nor the white frame stripe also found on several units. Specifically the units you would be able to model would include the 2014, 2001, 2002 and maybe the 4065. Because the 4065 received a HESR patch, the set would also include the HESR patch specifically found on the 4065 and a couple additional engines (I believe one of the 88xx series units and the 9712 received this patch).

I'm currently designing a set for myself and figured I'd better ask if anyone else would be interested in a set before assuming otherwise. I do not have a mockup available at this time, nor an estimated cost. If anyone is interested, I will post more information as it becomes available- I'm mostly curious if anyone else would be interested.
Last edited by GreatLakesRailfan on Tue May 12, 2015 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

A couple of follow up notes:

- This set would not include the chevrons as I believe those are available elsewhere, from Microscale, in another decal set. Also, with Atlas' planned release of the 9712 later this year, it seems likely that the wide nose units currently on the HESR roster would be easier to model via the Atlas shell, and currently available Microscale decals.

- This would be for N scale only. My apologies, but I don't have the interest or time to scale these to any other scale, let alone the equipment to check for proper fit on available modeling equipment. I intend to produce a letter size sheet of decals to be printed by Highball Graphics. My cost estimating is based on the prices Highball Graphics shows on his website for an 8.5 x 11 sheet, with appropriate margins. The decal "set" would be a copy of the original sheet I'll be sending to HG to essentially fill some of the holes between what the CMGN/HESR roster(ed) and what is commercially available.
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by cmgnnut »

I'm still waiting on the HO ones that were to be done but never made :(

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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by fmilhaupt »

A word of advice from someone who has been running decals for a while: Draw up the chevrons and include them in the set. A complete set for a unit will always sell better than one that requires someone to buy another set. People can be prevented from completing their models if using the set is dependent upon another set that goes out of stock for a few months or years.

My first Pere Marquette switcher set, back in 1990, was dependent on having the Microscale PM Berkshire set for the road name. The added hassle of buying two sets to letter a locomotive made a number of people reluctant to use it. Once I brought out a later revision that included everything on one sheet, the sales were considerably better and I was hearing of far more people actually completing models using it.

Plus, by including the chevrons you will have control over them. If Microscale decides to change them if/when they redesign their set, it doesn't affect you or your customers.
Last edited by fmilhaupt on Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Thanks Fritz, but I'm not doing this to sell sets. If I were, I would definitely do so, but my B30-7A project needs decals and figuring there might be others wanting decals, I figured I'd offer prints of the sheet if anyone else was interested. Something I probably should have done when I had Saginaw Valley decals custom designed/printed, before that guy disappeared.

If the process is worth repeating, I may look into doing something that includes the chevrons. Problem is, this is the first time I haven't paid someone else to design my artwork, so the entire process (so far) is new to me...
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by fmilhaupt »

Ah. You posted your reply as I was updating mine.

The key point I wanted to make was that by including the chevrons, you have control over the entire set.

Since I can't really make money on decals if I sell them at a price that most people are willing to pay, sales translates into a measurement of how many people will be able to use them and, also how long I'm likely to end up keeping the sets around (I hate wasting materials) unused. Time and aging are not friends to decals.
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GP9R
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by GP9R »

Its really too bad you're only doing them in N. I could use the sets to finish out my CMGN roster. I'm only missing the 2014, 2001, 2002, and 5175. Everything else is either already done or nearly done

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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by SD80MAC »

fmilhaupt wrote:A word of advice from someone who has been running decals for a while: Draw up the chevrons and include them in the set. A complete set for a unit will always sell better than one that requires someone to buy another set. People can be prevented from completing their models if using the set is dependent upon another set that goes out of stock for a few months or years.

My first Pere Marquette switcher set, back in 1990, was dependent on having the Microscale PM Berkshire set for the road name. The added hassle of buying two sets to letter a locomotive made a number of people reluctant to use it. Once I brought out a later revision that included everything on one sheet, the sales were considerably better and I was hearing of far more people actually completing models using it.

Plus, by including the chevrons you will have control over them. If Microscale decides to change them if/when they redesign their set, it doesn't affect you or your customers.
Hey Fritz, we'd love some more PM switcher decals in HO!
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Re: N scale- CMGN Decal Question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

cmgnnut wrote:I'm still waiting on the HO ones that were to be done but never made :(
What were the HO scale ones supposed to include?

I keep going back and forth between sticking with what I'm working on and trying to scale them up for HO scale. Problem is my (semi-appropriate) HO scale equipment is an Athearn GP38-2? shell, and is only half useful for checking size.


Cam, I won't be any help with the 5175 as I believe that would require a spot color for the logo. Hitting the stripe gray is going to be hard enough.
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Re: EDIT: N and HO scale- CMGN Decal Questions

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Project Update:

This project's been on the back burner for a while, but some of the comments above from the HO scale guys have been bugging me. As I noted in my (edited) post above, I don't have much HO scale equipment to check size/placement of (mockup) decals, just an older Athearn GP38-2 shell. Because this started as a personal quest to model the B30-7As in N scale, I don't have any interest in converting the project to a commercial venture of any kind. As I noted above, I intend to send the completed file to Highball Graphics for printing, at his published rates. That being said, I'm not really looking at this as just an N scale project anymore.

I finally got around to printing a color print of the work I'd completed so far. The stripe for the 20xx series units came out a lot closer to the color in my reference photos than I initially thought it was going to. It may not be perfect, but it was painted on and paint looks different based on age, wear and weather, so at this point it's close enough. If someone has an accurate CMYK combination for that stripe, I'd love to see it.

The printout wasn't just to check color. I trimmed out samples of each of the designs on the sheet and taped them in place to verify they were sized correctly. By chance, I'd also managed to locate my HO scale GP38-2 shell just before starting and kept it handy as I checked the samples. Some aspects of the file were way to large for N scale, but instead of just resizing them, I started a new file for the larger designs, especially the ones that looked appropriate when attached to the Athearn shell.

Looking back through the posts from 2008-2009 about CMGN decals, I realized that the ones I need are the ones Chris apparently didn't have designed. Unfortunately, I don't have an appropriate shell to check the booster unit decals on, and can't verify whether or not my design is sized appropriately. I have no problem making the HO size artwork available, but I need help from someone who has the appropriate shell(s) and is willing to print a copy of the mockups (I'll send a pdf file- all you need is printer paper, something to cut with and someway to check the size of the proof against the model it will be placed on- no decal paper necessary) to determine if the decal is too big, too small or close enough. I'd say to shoot me a PM, but my message box here is kinda full and I might not receive it, so you can email me at cwarczinsky@gmail.com if you're interested in helping with this project. As I stated above, this is a personal project, not a money making venture, so I can't offer any financial motivation for your help.

When this project is complete, I would like to keep it as self-sustaining as possible, and intend to offer the artwork to the decal printer to include in his catalog of available decals, so that they are available to others wishing to model these units in the future, rather than offering a limited run you better buy now before the opportunity is gone, as was the case in the past. That way, if I get hit by a bus or something, the guy looking to model the CMGN in 2020 will have a better shot at picking up a set for his project.
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Re: EDIT: N and HO scale- CMGN Decal Questions

Unread post by astrovanman1989 »

id be interested in ho scale cm decals and lsrc decals
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