CSX Locomotive Roster News, Updates & Information Thread

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:50 am

MQT3001 wrote:Why not take some SD40-2s out of storage and equip more yards with them, then? There are several dozen stored just sitting around...


Most large terminals are six axle terminals, and have been for quite some time. The SD38 series was designed for heavy yard service. Conrail used them, with MT6 slugs, extensively at their hump terminals. That's why the EJE loved them, good pullers at low speeds, and very easy to maintain. For the most part, the SD38's have been retired (on CSX and NS anyway) and replaced by rebuilt SD40-2's mated with the MT6 slugs AFAIK.

As far as the bumping the stored SD40-2's to yard service, they're probably stored because the ones in storage are probably junk, and long overdue for an overhaul. CSX does a failure analysis on what engines to bring out of storage and what ones to keep in storage. All that factors into the fate of a locomotive.

Further, throw in the cost of equipping the locomotive with the necessary RCO equipment, and you're spending big bucks on something you don't need anyway. Doesn't do anyone any good to throw a locomotive into the rotation that is going to be prone to breakdowns. On the flip side, you don't just keep spare assets sitting around if there isn't a need for them. It takes getting 'authorization' to try and increase a 'local service fleet' that works out of a terminal. Locomotive management doesn't want locomotives just sitting around.

Anyway, the local power situation seems pretty well balanced right now. Six axle road power is a bit short, but grain trains are running pretty heavy, and intermodals seemingly get 3 units, verses two in the past.

MQT3001 wrote:You're right about this...CSX is in need of more Geeps. It is probably why there are still RCPHG4s and B40/20-8s running around.


Really? You compare an RCO sled to a GP? Wow.

The reason the RCO drones are 'running around' is because they allow ANY locomotive to be used for a RCO assignment. Great idea in concept, but I don't have to work with them, so I don't know how well they actually work. I know the RCO flats were a bust, too light and prone to derailments, but still a good idea on paper. Anyway, the drones are great because you get some more use out of a paid for asset, and by equipping a handful, the entire fleet can be RCO compatable. At between $10K to $30K for RCO equipment installation, those are a great way to save money over having to equip a lot of locomotives that may only occasionally be needed for RCO service.

B40-8's only recently were bumped from their 'road' assignments. Don't forget they were designed as premiere intermodal power in the 90's. Derate them to 2000 hp and prolong their useful life now that they've been bumped from road assignments by newer locomotives.

MQT3001 wrote:Has the idea ever been floated to put 4-axle trucks on some old SD40-2s to supplement the Geep fleet? But I guess at that rate you may as well throw SD40-2s on switching jobs and let the Geeps roam...


Do you ever think about what you're saying, before you say it? Really? Put 4 axle trucks under a SD40-2? Why?

This isn't paper railroads. There is some thought behind locomotive power assignments, who gets what, how many, and why. It is a business after all, and a sitting asset (that is 'in service) isn't making money for the company.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby penn central » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:40 am

I was on vacation last week i took a trip down to Decatur Ill, CSX was using two Union Pacific GP60's and a RC sled to switch in the yard at Decatur, I haven't seen a sled in many years here in Michigan that was a wacky sight to see i took many pics, The Decatur Sub is unique i think isn't it mainly just four axle power, I followed the Decatur Sub over to Tuscola Ill. The locals told me there is six axle power on the ethanol trains. Sorry for taking the thread off topic a little.
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby AARR » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:16 am

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:Has the idea ever been floated to put 4-axle trucks on some old SD40-2s to supplement the Geep fleet? But I guess at that rate you may as well throw SD40-2s on switching jobs and let the Geeps roam...


Do you ever think about what you're saying, before you say it? Really? Put 4 axle trucks under a SD40-2? Why?

This isn't paper railroads. There is some thought behind locomotive power assignments, who gets what, how many, and why. It is a business after all, and a sitting asset (that is 'in service) isn't making money for the company.

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Since the topic of replacing 6-axle with 4-axle trucks came up I have a question. Didn't CN (maybe some other railroads too) replace some 6 axle ALCo's with 4 axles? Maybe it was the other way around. My books about the axle changes don't indicate why it was done.

On a personal note I'm excited about Class 1 railroad programs to derate higher horse power 4-axle units and put them into service on locals, etc. But I have a question about the modifications. In many cases when a unit with 3 radiator fans (35, 40, 50, etc.) is derated they remove one of the fans and more often than not its the middle one leaving very long radiator grill and two radiator fans with a big gap in the center. Again, my books describe what was changed but not why so would anyone know why they don't remove the end fan and block off part of the radiator grill like CMGN did with their GP38ac's.
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby ConrailMan5 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:59 am

AARR wrote:
CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:Has the idea ever been floated to put 4-axle trucks on some old SD40-2s to supplement the Geep fleet? But I guess at that rate you may as well throw SD40-2s on switching jobs and let the Geeps roam...


Do you ever think about what you're saying, before you say it? Really? Put 4 axle trucks under a SD40-2? Why?

This isn't paper railroads. There is some thought behind locomotive power assignments, who gets what, how many, and why. It is a business after all, and a sitting asset (that is 'in service) isn't making money for the company.

Practice Safe CSX

Since the topic of replacing 6-axle with 4-axle trucks came up I have a question. Didn't CN (maybe some other railroads too) replace some 6 axle ALCo's with 4 axles? Maybe it was the other way around. My books about the axle changes don't indicate why it was done.

If you are referring to the gmd-1's or other branch line units, Alcos maybe? Then yes. Those were A-1-A though, I believe. it was also done on the MILW as I recall.
As for the SD40 debate, BB40-2, look it up. All I have to say :lol:
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:02 am

penn central wrote:The Decatur Sub is unique i think isn't it mainly just four axle power, I followed the Decatur Sub over to Tuscola Ill. The locals told me there is six axle power on the ethanol trains. Sorry for taking the thread off topic a little.


Yeah, and that RCO flat is a PIA to mess with when it comes in for a Q, and then has to head back out. The Decatur Sub would all be six axle power on the road trains on the line if they would 'beef' up the wye at Paris. Only the trains to/from Avon have to have 4 axle power now. CSX upgraded the tracks from Hillsdale, IN to Decatur over the last 2 years. 6 axles had run from Chrisman, IL to Hillsdale on Vermillion Valley Coal trains (mine has since closed because it was scraping bottom). Major tie, rail, and bridge work west of Chrisman eliminated the need for the 6 axle restrictions.

AARR wrote:Since the topic of replacing 6-axle with 4-axle trucks came up I have a question. Didn't CN (maybe some other railroads too) replace some 6 axle ALCo's with 4 axles? Maybe it was the other way around. My books about the axle changes don't indicate why it was done.


CN had a lot of low density branches out in the prarie states, so I could see 4 axle trucks traded out for 6 axle trucks, and those engines bumped to that service. I'm pretty sure the GMD-1 was designed like the EMD 4 axle switchers, then had 6 axle trucks put under it to help spread the weight out. The MILW had the SD39L's which were a hybrid of a GP with 6 axle trucks for their lightweight branches out west. I'm not sure why on earth CSX would want to put 4 axle trucks under a 6 axle locomotive. You'd be looking at axle loadings of 100,000lbs+ per axle at that point. Probably be spreading a lot of rails with that.

AARR wrote:On a personal note I'm excited about Class 1 railroad programs to derate higher horse power 4-axle units and put them into service on locals, etc. But I have a question about the modifications. In many cases when a unit with 3 radiator fans (35, 40, 50, etc.) is derated they remove one of the fans and more often than not its the middle one leaving very long radiator grill and two radiator fans with a big gap in the center. Again, my books describe what was changed but not why so would anyone know why they don't remove the end fan and block off part of the radiator grill like CMGN did with their GP38ac's.


Most of the modifications done to derate power on CSX are accomplished in the computer systems, the prime mover isn't changed, etc. I would suppose with lower RPM's on the prime mover, you don't need all that cooling capacity. Or the radiators are upgraded to more efficient models? Either way, if you can eliminate the need for a fan, then that is one less mechanical component to maintain and eventually have fail. Plus, leave the radiator area 'open' and you don't have the expense of modifying it, plating it off, etc. I would guess the added benefit is you're still drawing in the same amount of air, over the same surface area of the radiators, with fewer fans?

I'm not a diesel shop expert, but I was told in engineer school that the radiator fans 'spin up' as they're needed. One fan will always be running, but the other two will start spinning to draw in cooling air only when its needed. No sense wasting energy running a fan, if it isn't needed.

Same principle in your personal automobile. My Dad works for Borg Warner in fluid power/cooling systems. Their fan drive works the same way. As the engine heats up, your fan will start spinning faster and faster to meet the cooling demands. When it cools, the fan slows. That way your engine isn't wasting horsepower to run a fan if it isn't needed. They accomplish that with centripital force, and fluid dynamics, so their fan drive doesn't require another electric motor or belt. When you start your car/truck in the morning and hear that cooling fan working really hard (they called it "Morning Sickness") that is a HUGE waste of horsepower (my late 90's chevy blazer did that). The Borg Warner fan drive would eliminate that noise and waste of energy in its design. Same principle on larger power plants and diesel locomotives. No need to have a cooling system that wastes energy in trying to keep an engine cool.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:27 am

Russ, I was only asking why it isn't done, not saying it should be done. Otherwise, I appreciate your answers.

Now I see that GP38 and GP40 rebuilds are starting up, do you know if RCO is standard on these rebuilt units?
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:33 pm

MQT3001 wrote:Russ, I was only asking why it isn't done, not saying it should be done. Otherwise, I appreciate your answers.

Now I see that GP38 and GP40 rebuilds are starting up, do you know if RCO is standard on these rebuilt units?


Its not done because its a dumb idea in the first place. You want to put the same weight onto less axles? That's why 6 axles are perferred over 4 axles in certain situations. One being they can spread the axle loadings out. Two being there is more wheel to rail contact for heavy pulling operations. The GP50 should prove that with incresed horsepower, you need increased axles. Those GP50's were RUNNERS if the trailing tonnage wasn't too much (which is why CNW used them on intermodals). Once you had any trailing tonnage the lack of those two additional axles, plus increased power to the traction motors, made them slippery. Plenty of instances out there where railroads have experimented with MORE axles under a locomotive (BN did a C-BB truck under and SDP40 once), plus all the funky South American configurations out there. You don't see too many of them trying to reduce the axles under them.

As for RCO equipment 'standard' on rebuilds, no they aren't. I don't know why they would be 'standard'. Why put $30,000 worth of equipment in something, if you don't need it? Plus, the LCU is HUGE and requires the removal of the conductors seat in the RCO units I've seen, and thus take up a lot of space in the cab. Plenty of RCO capable units out there, and you only need one in consist to have the ability to make it remote control. That's why the drones and sleds were a good idea on paper, anything laying around could be pressed into RCO service if needed. We have 6 assignments at Avon which require RCO power. I think we have 7 sets running around at any given time. We have 3 SD40-2 and MT6 combos, one SD40-2/SD40-2 combo for the hump, two SD40-2 and Genset combos (though the Gensets are usually moving around as paperweights), and 1 single SD60. That gives us one backup set to move between the ends when inspection, mechanical failures, locomotive servicing requirements, pop up. There is no need to have 10 additional RCO units 'sitting around', it is a waste of money.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:04 am

Your first news of 2014: CSX is downgrading their CW60ACs to CW46ACs.

There are 4265 units on the roster to begin 2014.
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:02 am

CSX_CO wrote:
AARR wrote:On a personal note I'm excited about Class 1 railroad programs to derate higher horse power 4-axle units and put them into service on locals, etc. But I have a question about the modifications. In many cases when a unit with 3 radiator fans (35, 40, 50, etc.) is derated they remove one of the fans and more often than not its the middle one leaving very long radiator grill and two radiator fans with a big gap in the center. Again, my books describe what was changed but not why so would anyone know why they don't remove the end fan and block off part of the radiator grill like CMGN did with their GP38ac's.


Most of the modifications done to derate power on CSX are accomplished in the computer systems, the prime mover isn't changed, etc. I would suppose with lower RPM's on the prime mover, you don't need all that cooling capacity. Or the radiators are upgraded to more efficient models? Either way, if you can eliminate the need for a fan, then that is one less mechanical component to maintain and eventually have fail. Plus, leave the radiator area 'open' and you don't have the expense of modifying it, plating it off, etc. I would guess the added benefit is you're still drawing in the same amount of air, over the same surface area of the radiators, with fewer fans?

I'm not a diesel shop expert, but I was told in engineer school that the radiator fans 'spin up' as they're needed. One fan will always be running, but the other two will start spinning to draw in cooling air only when its needed. No sense wasting energy running a fan, if it isn't needed.

Ok, I understand.

When they de-rate them why do they sometimes remove the middle fan and leave the entire radiator grill and others remove the end fan (leaving the two next to each other with no gap) and block the extended radiator grill. Is it simply a cost decisions? Are there other factors they have to consider?

End fan removed, part of radiator grill blocked off
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Middle fan removed, entire radiator grill left in place
Image

I noticed recently that P&L down-rated GP40-2's and left all three fans in place.
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby SD80MAC » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:43 am

Don, I'd say it's probably just the personal preference of the rebuilder. The only thing I can think of plating over part of the radiator accomplishes is less air intake due to decreased cooling needs. I'm sure there's probably some reason why some guy thought it was a good idea, but who knows anymore.
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:09 pm

Isn't it often that units are just downgraded in the books, not physically limited?
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:16 pm

MQT3001 wrote:Isn't it often that units are just downgraded in the books, not physically limited?


They'll be limited somehow 'physically'. Either through the computer system, or other means. Not sure how you downgrade something 'in the books'?

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:26 pm

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:Isn't it often that units are just downgraded in the books, not physically limited?

Not sure how you downgrade something 'in the books'?

Aren't CSX's "ES40DCs" literally "ES44DCs" they only say have 4000hp for whatever reason? As in, they're 4400hp machines, but assigned as only having 4000?
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:34 pm

MQT3001 wrote:
CSX_CO wrote:Not sure how you downgrade something 'in the books'?

Aren't CSX's "ES40DCs" literally "ES44DCs" they only say have 4000hp for whatever reason? As in, they're 4400hp machines, but assigned as only having 4000?


Yes, they are ES40DC's, but have the 4400 hp prime mover. Output is limited through the computer. Its not a 'on the books' thing as you suggest.

They could be turned back up to 4400 if needed, but I guess the extra fuel consumption isn't worth the additional 400 hp in the eyes of locomotive management and/or the finance department.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:03 pm

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:
CSX_CO wrote:Not sure how you downgrade something 'in the books'?

Aren't CSX's "ES40DCs" literally "ES44DCs" they only say have 4000hp for whatever reason? As in, they're 4400hp machines, but assigned as only having 4000?


Yes, they are ES40DC's, but have the 4400 hp prime mover. Output is limited through the computer. Its not a 'on the books' thing as you suggest.

They could be turned back up to 4400 if needed, but I guess the extra fuel consumption isn't worth the additional 400 hp in the eyes of locomotive management and/or the finance department.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Saturnalia » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:25 pm

1544 is your latest YN3B Repaint
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby JStryker722 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:30 pm

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:
CSX_CO wrote:Not sure how you downgrade something 'in the books'?

Aren't CSX's "ES40DCs" literally "ES44DCs" they only say have 4000hp for whatever reason? As in, they're 4400hp machines, but assigned as only having 4000?


Yes, they are ES40DC's, but have the 4400 hp prime mover. Output is limited through the computer. Its not a 'on the books' thing as you suggest.

They could be turned back up to 4400 if needed, but I guess the extra fuel consumption isn't worth the additional 400 hp in the eyes of locomotive management and/or the finance department.

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In other words,CSX figured out why NS ordered their new power since 1990s at 400 less HP lol
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby CSX_CO » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:42 pm

JStryker722 wrote:In other words,CSX figured out why NS ordered their new power since 1990s at 400 less HP lol


NS had them derated from the get go, but it had the same prime mover as every other Dash-9. so they didn't order power with 400 less hp as you suggest. My guess is it helped with power assignments. I believe the SD70 series is rated at 4,000 hp too. So...you have a whole fleet of locomotives at 4,000 hp, no need to go 'digging' as to what model you're assigning to the train, how much hp it has, its tonnage rating, etc. If everything is just 4,000hp, makes power assignment a bit easier. Plus, saves wear and tear on the prime mover if you're not running it at full output all the time.

Interestingly enough, it says NS is 're-rating' their engines to 4,400 hp as they cycle through for 184 day inspections.

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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby patrick » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:29 pm

Oddly enough.. its ONE guys who thinks its better to derate the units.. NS had him first and NO, I dont recall his name, but hes the reason NS has/had ES40-C40- anythings.. and hes now the same reason csx is doing the same.. and now that NS has the guy from CSX.. they're going back to the way things should be.. and CSX will too when this guys leaves.. Things like B20-8's.. good grief.. know how they do that... anything after notch 5.. does nothing... notch five.. thats all the power you get.. lets save fuel... oh wait... that unit only goes to notch 5.. so we'll have to add a second unit cause that one can't pull the train by itself... Yep.. railroad math.. Gotta love it!
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Re: CSX Locomotive Roster News & YN3B Repaint Thread

Unread postby Pie39 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:22 pm

Have we checked off CSX 7903? Apologies if it's literally over top of my post or something. I saw her in YN3B today, she's not an ex-con but still a C40-8W. http://www.flickr.com/photos/63930868@N ... otostream/
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